Don't remove items from the Queue when they've played [done in 1.4]

Could you really leave behind everything else Roon offers for the lack of this one function?

Nowt as queer as folk as sometimes say.

SJB

Honestly, I will. I spend much of my listening time by: bringing up an artist or an album or a playlist and then skipping around to hear different tracks, out of order with repeats.

That basic playback model is pure agony with Roon and is so easy to with even a CD player, an iPod, or any of the other media players I’ve used in the past (iTunes, Audirvana, various MPD playback apps… really, all of them).

There are a number of threads discussing the need for a non-consuming queue and to be able to tap-and-play without: tap-and-hold, tap a play-from-here button and the confirm via the paw masher.

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I’ve been a user interface designer for 20+ years… I can tell you that this is exactily what’s going on inside of Roon. Sorry, they are quite good at what they do and the vision for Roon is revolutionary - I love it.

But that can lead to teams not really listening to customers in favor of a “design principal”.

I’ll give you a month and you’ll be back again!

SJB

You’d lose that bet… I am hardly using it now, other than to explore my collection and Tidal.

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2 posts were merged into an existing topic: One Click Play Please

You can’t please all of the people all of the time.

I imagine an improved GUI that makes it easier to flip between current queue and history will keep most of us happy.

I would contend a non destructive queue is a playlist.

A queue is exactly that, so what remains to be played remains in the queue.

It obviously bugs a lot of people or at least a lot of vocal people but there is quite likely a sizeable silent majority quite happy with current logic.

SJB

Quite a few people with concerns about the current Queue behaviour (Sooloos had a persistent queue that people complained about, resulting in the current Queue) seem not to be aware of History or used it to it’s full extent. In particular, select or multi-select tracks in History then Play/Play Next or Add to Queue. History is permanent; a Queue disappears once a new Queue is made for that Zone.

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That’s a non sequitur if I ever read one – and a false statement to boot. Roon is rightfully appreciated for keeping an open mind regarding customer requests – you may want to read @mike’s musings here:

What you are proposing is a change of paradigm. Which is fine, but the consequences are far greater than just creating a flipping switch to suit your preferences. We’ll see what happens in time – and of course, in the mean time there’s no one stopping you from thoroughly enjoying iTunes + Bitperfect or the Volumio/Minimserver/BubbleUPnP combo if these serve your needs for excellent UX.

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Sonos is what the rest of my family uses.

With Sonos, I can add stuff to the queue, let it play and, magically, I can just tap on any song (which is still there, since Sonos uses a non-consuming queue) and it plays from that point onwards. Like, I don’t know, every single media player in existence… except Roon.

Again, this isn’t just me… there are many posting from others on this same topic, your opinion aside.

I’m swimming upstream on this and some folks are passionate about the current playback paradigm, so I will take your advice and just go back to Audirvana+ and Volumio/Minimserver/BubbleUPnP, as you suggest, and save $100.00 in July.

For what it’s worth, you did a great job on the Cubox-I RAAT setup instructions.

I used to use Sonos (and Sooloos after that) and found myself clearing stale queues ad nauseam. But I agree this is a fundamental preference and I can understand the opposite view. The payoff with making it a preference, is that the paw-masher screen and a few other places will need to change as well, leading to inconsistencies in operation. Whether this is worth it or not is ultimately for Roon to decide. The absence of the Roon voice in discussions like this usually indicates such a decision has not been made.

While I can not phatom leaving everything that Roon brings to the table behind over this, I can only wish you well in your endeavours. Like I said: we’ll have to see what the future brings – perhaps your grand goodbye could end up being just a temporary lapse of license… :wink:

And thank you for the compliment – it’s appreciated.

I also dislike the destructive queue in Roon. It’s increasingly frustrating as I log more time w/Roon, although not yet infuriating. That may still come though, in time. :slight_smile: It would be wonderful if this setting could be toggled between the two different approaches. I can live w/the pawmasher, and I’m not going to pitch Roon out the door over the destructive queue, but I would urge Roon to consider the sheer weight of these opinions, and acknowledge that the current destructive queue is disliked by many here. Wandering into History is not the solution, in my opinion.

edit – [sorry, not directed @ Krutsch, was trying for a general reply]

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I didn’t take it that way, no worries.

I just finished removing RoonServer from my Mac Mini and am re-engaging with MinimServer, et al., on the same Cubox-I (a flip of the microSD card, if you will).

I think Roon is on the right path and as I stated earlier, their vision is the way forward. It’s just become too frustrating and it’s taking the fun out of listening to music for me.

And, it’s not just the queue model, it’s also the need to “double-curate” my library (I feel like I’ve had to “fix-up” too many albums in my collection and it’s time consuming), as well as the fact that I am waiting for Roon endpoints for my streamers (living room, home office, home theater AVR). I know it will get there and I will keep an eye on things via this forum, which has been very enlightening.

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History is all well and good if things actually end up there - but one of the main problems I have with the Queue is that if I jump ahead a bunch of tracks, Roon eats everything in the queue between what is currently playing and the track that I jumped to. The tracks that were “eaten” don’t show up in History - they’re just gone. It also seems that many of the proponents of History as a substitute for a static queue are using Roon with a keyboard/mouse (there are many references to right clicking, etc. above), which just isn’t how I generally want to interface with playback software (I want to be able to change things at the dinner table, as I walk around, etc.).

I understand the reasons that have been articulated for having a “destructive” queue and I respect that some may prefer this behavior. Normally I’m pretty flexible (I use emacs AND vi), but as it stands this is an aspect of Roon that I find it hard to adapt to. I will say that much of my aggravation with the operation of the Queue probably stems from the fact that Roon doesn’t yet have network functionality that meet my needs, meaning that (every day) I use playback software with a queue mechanism that works differently from Roon. I’ve got 4 RaspberryPi’s in different rooms at home, one Raspberry Pi at my office, and I stream to my iPhone while commuting (and in a variety of other scenarios). Slimserver and iPeng (my current setup) use a “static queue”, and with this setup I can stream to all of these “zones” using a single interface (and even transcode to save bandwidth) - whereas Roon only works for devices on my home network (but not iPhones or iPads). Hopefully the software will reach the point where I can “Roon once, play anywhere” - and when that happens I look forward to giving it a try to see if I can live with Roon’s Queue implementation.

Just noting that a long press on tablet or phone is the equivalent of a right click.

Keeping my fingers crossed that Roon will offer the user a choice for destructive or non-destructive queue soon so we can end this debate and get back to the music!

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ipeng is the best $9 I’ve ever spent on my music system!

I’m one of the users for whom the destructive queue is a deal-breaker. For me, all of the great things about Roon added up together (and there are many) don’t outweigh the negative of the current queue behavior.

I couldn’t agree with @Krutsch more strongly than if I’d written this myself: [quote=“Krutsch, post:68, topic:6060”]
I spend much of my listening time by: bringing up an artist or an album or a playlist and then skipping around to hear different tracks, out of order with repeats.

That basic playback model is pure agony with Roon and is so easy to with even a CD player, an iPod, or any of the other media players I’ve used in the past (iTunes, Audirvana, various MPD playback apps… really, all of them).

There are a number of threads discussing the need for a non-consuming queue and to be able to tap-and-play without: tap-and-hold, tap a play-from-here button and the confirm via the paw masher.
[/quote]
Obviously, not everyone listens to music this way, but for those of us that do, Roon, in its current implementation, just doesn’t work. As @SJB stated above, what we want is list behavior, not queue behavior - at least as an option. A “playlist” that we have not yet saved.

It would also be great if the process of adding music to the queue/list could be simplified to a maximum of two steps - never three. I could give examples of other phone & tablet apps that do this well.

Thanks for your responses @andybob, but History is really not a solution. It still requires that we keep finding and re-adding music to the queue that we’ve already added, after which it will again disappear immediately as we play it.

I check this forum from time to time, hoping for movement on this topic, but unless the team decides to add a non-destructive queue (list) option, I have to conclude that Roon isn’t for me.

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What leaves a stale aftertaste is, that even after hundreds of posting in different threads, not one single comment from the roon team was made.

Not only a few people here wish only for a toggle to decide for themselves if they want queue- or list-behavior.
Please, roon team, at least let us know, why we (paying customers) can’t have that toggle.

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