DSD native reproduction

Hi I have ROCK in Intel i5 connected directly to Weiss USB DAC able to manage DSD 64 and 192khz. I do not get to reproduce native DSD it always converts to PCM.

Private zone: No
DSD strategy Native
MQA No MQA support
Volumen Control Device volume
Re sync Delay 50ms
Max Sample rate 192
Max bit per sample 32
Max sample DSD. Up to DSD 64
Clock master Default
Enable MQA decoder No
Buffer size Default
Multichannel mixing Downmix as needed

In MUSE:
Head room management. Enable
Sample rate conversion Enable
For compatibility only
Precise minimum phase
DSD setting:
Sigma delta modulator convert PCM to DSD. 5th order
SDM gain -2dB
Parallelize Sigma delta modulator Yes
Enable native DSD processing Yes
DSD to PCM filter Recommended
DSD to PCM gain + 6dB

I know that I must utilize volumen control of the DAC and not roon digital volume control to get native reproduction of the dsd
But with volume control set at the device and DSD native, it converts to PCM.

As well there another issue related when setting:
If I set yes in Parallelize Sigma Delta modulator a big noise sounds
With above stream the DSD is convert to 352,8 kHz PCM

Which Weiss DAC?

At least one - this one - has no native DSD capability.

And other Weiss DACs I glanced over are DSP machines – while they might accept DSD on the input (for convenience) they can’t use it and have to convert the signal to PCM anyway.
These DACs are, from my understanding, PCM DSP machines with integrated DACs. There is no reason to send DSD to them (and let them do the conversion) if you don’t have to.

PS: They even describe their digital Volume control (done right), so no DSD be used if you want to use that as you wrote.

My Weiss dac have DSD 64 and up to 192khz capacity
Always it is better quality d/a conversion from dsd than pcm
It is true that that dac has both a analog volumen control to fix the voltage output level and as well a digital volumen control , technically volumen control can be done without converting to pcm, although it is more difficult and normally it is converted to pcm

Weiss’s expertise historically is with PCM digital audio processing. Their standalone as well as optional USB modules are marketed as adding “DSD to PCM conversion” ability to a product as far as I can recall from memory (and glance from the current website). An output voltage selector is not an analog volume control and their digital volume control clearly is PCM based from their own description.
Is there a reason why you can’t simply post the type/version of your DAC used?

PS: For native DSD some sort of driver is needed. While the Linux kernel has some support (drivers) built-in, these don’t have to work with every DAC. Drivers are device (DAC) specific.
Given the history of Weiss, the limited sampling rate support of your DAC and the fact your current settings in Roon don’t work, try to set the DSD strategy to DoP (which is still DSD).
You may also have to disable the Volume control in Roon – make sure you set the volume to maximum first before disabling in Roon.

This is a challenging statement. If you have a true DSD source, a solid argument can be made that preserving its D/A conversion in the DSD realm is the best choice.

But true DSD recordings are a small percentage of recordings overall, and many didn’t even originate in the DSD realm.

Today, many DSD recordings originate in PCM format called DXD, which is considered of high enough PCM resolution to ba transcoded to DSD in an academically-acceptably manner after mastering work is done. But many people, include me, think it’s just best to buy the DXD to begin with, as it was the original recording method, and the transcoding cannot be superior. Plus, if I want to, I can do it myself.

If you have true DSD recordings and you care about pure DSD playback, you need a DAC that truly honors the format, and your Weiss, unfortunately, does not.

2 Likes

Thanks a lot for clarifying help
My dac is an upgrade from old Minerva to 202 usb The specs says it is able to dsd 64 and 192
I have not read it does volumen control in pcm , I did asume it does since it is a standard option
But if you read it does in pcm it could be the reason.
I have set the volumen control to the device, as you recommend
But I can not get native reproduction of dsd, when setting it I get noise
For sure DoP is a feasible option.
But I was surprise two days ago getting native dsd reproduction withouth noise
But after I only get noise
Thanks for help

Thanks for help
Yes I have a true dsd 64 and 128 I got ripping my sacd collection correctly. 4Tb.
I thought to be able to reproduce with my Weiss 202 dsd 64 capability and 198
But something is wrong in my configuration

Only getting noise means that the device (likely and not Roon as Roon is usually aware of what format it is playing) is treating the audio as PCM and interpreting DSD as PCM without conversion is just noise.

PS: The Weiss 202 is a PCM DAC with digital (PCM) volume control. The optional USB module may support DSD for convenience but should convert it to PCM before handing it over to the DAC (device) as the DAC (device) can’t handle DSD.
Often if not even always such “intelligent” USB modules also have their own (digital) volume control built-in (the one Roon controls if allowed) which is independent from the DAC device’s own (and may be of a lower quality too). So you probably have two, none of wich you can use with DSD as both are PCM only/exclusively. Please make sure all DSP, this includes volume control, is disabled for DSD playback (check Roon’s signal path). You should be able to use the DAC device’s volume control if the USB module works as intended and converts the DSD to PCM before handing it over to the DAC device – but is then obviously no longer DSD too. You can save yourself a lot of headache if you simply would stop trying to send DSD to that DAC and, if you have actual DSD source (files), let Roon make the conversion to PCM instead of the DAC’s optional USB module.

Thanks again.

I nicely reproduce all my DSD collection with PCM and DoP without any problem, both using Roon digital control or using the Weiss volume control.

I was just trying just to improve quality with native DSD.

What I do not understand is why it was ok once without noise and the day after same configuration no way !!!

By the way Roon’s volume control is very good.

There is no improvement to be expect – DSD is DSD no matter how it is transported (encapsulated/hidden in a PCM stream format or not) over the same cable between the same devices. There is also no improvement to be expected using DSD as transport format over PCM if the DAC can’t use it. If you can hear a difference it comes from the conversion happening, as a byproduct of the added load because of the conversion or is just imagined (expectation bias).

PS: Hearing a difference is also pointless without a reference to compare to that allows to tell which version is more accurate.

3 Likes

Ok helpful !
Weiss is ranked as one of the best streamers dac of the market and with an excellent DSP , those are sold as well separate
My device is quite old and limited although thanks to a factory hardware upgrade is able to accept Dsd64 and PCM 192 I have recently make comparaison at home with Matrix Eversolo and Lumin and in order to improve my SQ I must go to the range of 8000€ with those brands and as well with Weiss.
In concrete mine does volumen control in digital domain
Conclusion is I shall use this dac with DoP and its volumen control until I go to next level
Thanks for helping comments

I did a mistake my DAC does volumen control on PCM

Thanks for comment
I can not compare dsd over DoP with native DSD, glad to hear that there is no Sonic differences between the two.
But yes I can compare Dsd over DoP with conversion from DSD to PCM
It is clear not psycho biass.