Roon core: Macmini 2012 (16 gig, ssd)
DAC - Lesslo (original)
network bridge: Bricasti Design (USB link to dac)
Main source - Tidal
Hi
Firstly, to be honest, I do not know much about dsd upsampling, hence why i’m posting. I have been experimenting and find things to sound quite good with the following setting (-17db ufs):
I have set conversion filter to precise minimal phase based on roon website - I mostly listen to electronic, studio based recordings. I have just now enabled native dsd processing.
At dsd64 things seem quite stable, although tiny ‘click/pop sound’ when first starting playback (doesn’t happen thereafter (progressing tracks etc). At 128 things start to become unstable (random pop/clicks).
I have stuck with dsd64 and I am aware that conversion affects MQA, but not so worried about that - I do not rate MQA. Please might people confirm whether or not dsd upsampling is, in reality, beneficial when using Tidal and maybe explain if I should be employing native conversion (I seem to notice great improvement when enabled)? Basically, am I delusional ?
Upsampling is affecting your signal, and if it sounds good to you, I would keep using it until it no longer sounds good to you. The joys of free tinkering!
I don’t think you are delusional. When I played around with DSD64 upsampling on my sources, I liked what it did sometimes and other times I didn’t. I don’t have a delta sigma DAC in my chain right now so can’t play around with DSD but thought it was fun when I did.
Only you can say what sounds good in your room on your system, but again, you have upsampled a PCM file and added different filters, so it is not bit perfect and may be audible. Cheers!
This could be because the DAC has to adapt to the signal. With some DACs, you can hear such sounds when the signal switches between PCM and DSD.
I also upsample to DSD with Roon, and I like what I hear. But I am considering to buy a HQ Player license, because I like upsampling that way even better. But I have to wait for it because my server needs an upgrade before I do that.
Mac mini M1 is great for DSP up to DSD256, I use one for HQPlayer. I don’t know how efficient Roon’s implementations of the relevant filters and modulators are, but for sure the M1 has a lot more compute power for this purpose than a 2012 mini.
Regarding your findings with DSD: most DACs (not all) are internally delta-sigma, and use internal upsampling filters and a modulator to convert from PCM to SDM (sigma-delta modulation), which is what the DAC needs. An external computer has a lot more compute power so it can implement better filters and modulators and send its SDM output as DSD directly to the DAC chip, bypassing the less powerful internal filters and modulator. Now, the internal filters and modulators are designed specifically for that DAC and may get benefits from that that the external filters and modulators don’t. That is, YMMV.
If it sounds good to you its beneficial. If you want to dive into why DSD > PCM (or PCM > DSD) there are plenty of posts already floating around for that
If you want to really jump down the rabbit hole look into HQPlayer.
Common issue. You might want to convert to DoP, which does nothing to degrade the signal, and keeps this from happening. The only disadvantage is that it requires twice the network bandwidth.
On a side note, DSD purists (I might be one? ) will advise you to leave well enough alone and not upconvert. The idea of DSD is to not do any sort of upsampling/downsampling or conversion to PCM or back, because it can potentially affect the purity of the whole thing. (Read online about “fake” DSD recordings - easy to find articles.)
DoP is not a conversion, however; it is just an encapsulation, and your data remains in its pure unadulterated DSD state when processed in your DAC. There’s a lot on these forums about DoP if you are curious.
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) will advise you to leave well enough alone and not upconvert. The idea of DSD is to not do any sort of upsampling/downsampling or conversion to PCM or back, because it can potentially affect the purity of the whole thing. (Read online about “fake” DSD recordings - easy to find articles.)