So far I have not managed to play DTS 5.1 via Roon on a Trinnov Altitude 32.
The files are stereo FLACS encoding DTS 5.1. Roon decodes and sends as PCM to the
Altitude.
There it is always played as PCM noise and not decoded. Has anyone settings on Roon/Trinnov that make this work?
When I play the same files via HDMI in on the Altitude they are quickly recognized as DTS and decoded.
I think the PCM from Roon is bit precise. I do no level management or equalization.
Can you post a screenshot of the Roon Signal Path screen, that will confirm what is happening from a Roon perspective.
Is this also via Roon? If so posting a Roon Signal Path screenshot will help so it can be compared to the one above.
It’s complicate for me to transfer a picture, but the signal path on Roon is the same as with a regular stereo PCM flac. Source flac, 16 bit, stereo, Roon Audio Transport System (both with lilac colour so bit perfect) and then Trinnov stages. Same as with normal PCM sources.
When it works it’s not via the roon but HDMI in from an Oppo via Lumagen.
You need to talk to Trinnov. I doubt that this is a Roon concern. Two possibilities are that the HDMI input is in the path of the DTS decoder but the network input is not and/or the network input undergoes almost immediate sample rate conversion (perhaps to 48 kHz or 96 kHz). Either way, that is for Trinnov to answer.
AJ
I’m reading between the lines a bit here, so can you confirm that I understand your problem?
I think you are trying to use the normal network (RAAT) connection to send an old DTS 5.1 bitstream to your Altitude. Back in the 90s, DTS used a normal stereo PCM “container” to transport this 5.1 content. You could even buy CDs with this 5.1 content from DTS. Is this what you are attempting?
My understanding is that Roon supports multichannel PCM but does not yet support bitstreams like Atmos or (possibly) these older 5.1 files. However, I have never encountered this particular situation (if I understand it correctly), so I have asked my support team in Paris to do a bit of legwork for me.
Please clarify what you are experiencing in case I have misunderstood anything. Thank you.
Yes, I’m sending a PCM stereo flac file that is coming from a DTS CD and has encoded 5.1 DTS in it via roon to the Altitude. Roon decodes the flac compression and sends PCM stereo, as I understand it. Altitude on roon input outputs PCM noise and does not see it as DTS to decode. The same file coming in via HDMI from an Oppo, using a UPnP network server to get it, is decoded as DTS, after a short PCM noise phase. So either the HDMI and roon inputs act differently or roon after all is not bit perfect due to some parameters set. It claims to be bit perfect though as the flow chart shows lilac colour for the roon section.
You already have been instructed to do so once, but you need to post a capture of your full Signal path. Until then, all of this discussion is little more than conjecture.
AJ
Hi it has been proven many times over that when Roon reports a bit perfect signal path to the device it is.
FYI I use Roon to play ripped DTS CDs (in a FLAC container) to a Meridian 861 SSP that detects the PCM is a DTS signal and decodes it to 5.1. The network protocol in my case is Sooloos (rather than RAAT) but I don’t believe that is significant as both are bit perfect transports.
My speculation is similar to @WiWavelength here, hopefully @Jon_Herron at Trinnov can you provide you with an official answer.
No, that understanding is wrong.
Your explanation in the paragraph above, though, is spot on. And that is why Dolby or DTS bitstream support is irrelevant. Roon sees ripped DTS CDs as nothing other than two channel 16 bit 44.1 kHz PCM and can pass that audio to an external DTS decoder.
AJ
Hi @Jon_Herron,
I hope this adds some clarity …
Correct.
DTS 5.1 encoding is completely transparent to Roon, so it is supported by default.
As the DTS signal is contained within a standard 2 channel PCM stream, from Roon’s PoV, it’s just PCM and is sent bit perfectly via RAAT to the endpoint (in this case the Trinnov).
Only the DTS decoder in the endpoint cares, and provided 2 channel PCM is sent to it, it should detect the DTS signature and activate the decoder. The big caveat is it must be a bit perfect all the way to to decoder, as any modification will destroy the DTS encoding resulting in “white” noise.
Two things…
You do not have to take a photo of the Signal path. If you have a device that can control Roon, then you have a device that can take a screen capture and post it here.
Your Signal path shows bit perfect transport from Roon to Trinnov. You can try rebooting everything in that Signal path to see if that gets rid of any gremlins. Otherwise, all recourse lies with Trinnov, which may not support DTS decoding from its network input.
AJ
Bitstreams are expected on the HDMI inputs, which explains why that connection will figure out what this (now uncommon) format requires. I don’t think the Roon network input (RAAT) expects a bitstream, which you are providing even though it is in a PCM container. The bitstream still needs to be decoded into 5.1 PCM rather than the 2.0 PCM container in which it is transported. (Otherwise, the 5.1 channels would not have fit on a normal/stereo CD.) The “digital noise” you hear is the bitstream being handled like PCM.
The person on our R&D team who developed the Roon Ready software is on holiday this week. So I am making more of an educated guess here than I would like. But your description of what is happening jibes with my hypothesis: I don’t believe we anticipated a 5.1 bitstream coming into Roon Ready input. (Roon explicitly supports multichannel PCM, both 5.1 and 7.1), as does the Altitude.
The Amethyst, Altitude16, and Altitude32 were all certified as Roon Ready™ back when we introduced the software many years ago. The testing for certification entailed RoonLabs testing with every type of signal they anticipated at the time. If they have updated their specification to include this 1990s format, I have not heard about it. I’m sorry.
The lack of DTS support via the network stems back to 2018 when someone posted about it as a feature request.
https://community.stg.roonlabs.net/t/support-dts-playback/55336
Is this from your Roon Server via HDMI to the Altitude?
Roon Ready certification is never a guarantee of exhaustive multi-channel support or even any MC support. There’s a lot of wriggle room, so it’s really down to the device vendor to determine what MC format they support (and which one’s they don’t).
I know vanila DTS is a lossy format, but does still have a place (well for some at least).
Hi @Michel_Hafner,
If Trinnov are unable / unwilling to support DTS decoding via their RAAT input, you could look at using a software DTS decoder to convert the DTS FLAC file to a multi-channel PCM.
It would result in a larger file (will not improve to quality of course) but may be a way forwards for you.
Alternatively, but not as elegant, have an additional RAAT endpoint that supports HDMI output and hook that up to the Trinnov.
I hope it works out one way or another (I have a personal interest as well as I’ll mostly like replace my 861 with a Trinnov at some point and would like the ability to still play my ripped DTS CDs).
A cheap used Google Chromecast HDMI dongle will accomplish the same thing.
AJ
This won’t work either.
I have tried multiple times to play DTS from Roon.
My only method ever has been to convert to another format.
In my case it was a .wav DTS 5.1 album, Queens greatest hits which I converted to flac.
Converted it on my phone via
It now plays and is still 6 channel.
The limitation here is just Roon.
Now via HDMI to my TV from my Roon Server (DietPi), playback on Sonos Beam 2
What will not work? Roon playing DTS CD format via RAAT always has worked. As long as there is a DTS decoder at the endpoint. And as long as the Signal path remains bit perfect. In fact, DTS CD playback frequently has been used as an effective litmus test for bit perfect transport.
This about DTS CD format. Not DTS in general. Me thinkst you really know not what the DTS CD format is/was. Because no Queen compilation was released in DTS CD format. You were trying to play a DTS DVD rip, and that is a completely different can of worms.
AJ
I thinketh you’re a patronising arse at times (from the UK so it’s spelt with an S)
Those with greater knowledge could learn a valuable lesson from situations like this, to educate folk who may not know.
I’m aware of what DTS CD was and that a normal CD player, via a digital output to a DTS decoding device can playback it’s multichannel content.
I was always under the impression a DVD-A with a DTS sound track was the same audio content as that on a DTS CD, but having the DVD element, only a DVD player can replay it.
