CD’s have been available for more than 40 years. Digital recording is older than that. Not exactly in it’s infancy.
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This isn’t how a digital to analogue works; bits do not represent a voltage. Samples use discrete time, and there is only one band-limited signal that can pass through each sample. So, no, they can’t be affected in this way.
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Digital analog is represented by a 8,16,24,32,64 bit binary word which represents a value which represents a voltage. As a previous industrial automation designer I am aware of how d/a works. I also know through experience that the electrical quality of the incoming bitstream can affect the output. The sound differences are perceived and although usually expectation biased I was just suggesting there may be processing reasons as well.
I am not disputing that an ADC converts voltage, current, pressure etc. into a digital signal, and a DAC does the opposite. However, it is incorrect to state that there is a “digital waveform” and this contains thousands of different voltage levels. Likewise, coining the phrase, “badly formed bits” is meaningless. If the samples were accurately recorded, then anything bad seen by the DAC is corrupt. A DAC usually handles corrupt or missing samples, but in severe cases, you may notice pixelisation in videos or hear audible clicks.
However, a single missing sample will not affect reconstruction of an analogue waveform (the stepped waveform model often cited is an oversimplification, and incorrect.) By sampling a band-limited signal, the only possible output is the original analogue signal.
This has moved off-topic, so I will move the relevant posts to a linked topic if it continues.
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Then why do you keep bringing the “digital waveform” point over and over? You either are not aware how it works, or you are just trolling. Let’s recap the typical D/A process for audio, and let me know which step is not clear to you:
- Bits enter the DAC, typically through an I2S bus. This is the last part where there’s any kind of “digital waveform”.
- Bits are assembled into samples (typically 32 bit wide) in an internal buffer.
- An 8x (or 4x, or 2x, depending on the input sapling rate) oversampling filter is applied to blocks of samples in memory. Digital volume, zero detect, de-emphasis etc. happen here, and another block of samples is produced in memory.
- Samples are further oversampled, usually 16x or 32x, and pass through a delta-sigma modulator that reduces the bit width to 4-6 bits. That’s yet another block of samples in memory.
- Each sample is converted from two’s complement coding, where bits have exponential weights, to “thermometer” coding, where each bit has equal weight. Another set of samples.
- In the last step, each bit set to one is given either the same voltage or the same current, and each bit’s contribution is added up to produce the final output. These voltages or currents are determined solely by the DAC’s internal voltage rails.
There are of course variations to this process, depending on the manufacturer and on the type of signal (PCM or DSD), but, as @Suedkiez said, samples pass through several buffers and formats and are thus completely isolated from any “digital waveform” that carried them to the DAC’s input ports.
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I am not a troll just an audio hobbyist. I will probably use roon for the foreseeable future. Due to the condescending replies of most bab posters toward sound difference posters it is impossible to carry on an enjoyable discussion.
It would be nice if there was a category for sound quality with a sticky asking the bab to refrain from posting.
Out
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So basically you are asking for a section where you can post something demonstrably inaccurate without ever being challenged?
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If I think you’re wrong and I can prove it in clear technical terms, I’ll do that. If that’s not enjoyable to you, tough.
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It’s hardly a discussion when you post bold claims, which you know to be contentious and that fly in the face of well understood engineering principles, then strop out of the thread and name call when asked to clarify those claims and your understanding of a process.
I don’t know Marian nor his background, but from his post and others I assume he has post grad-level degree in a science or engineering subject, but revealingly I don’t know for sure, because — as far as I am aware — he’s never posted that information in order to try claim that his knowledge is better than anyone else’s. Rather his posts speak for themselves and come across as level headed and well-informed.
You say you’re a ‘audio hobbyist’ — which suggest you are still learning — in which case why would you not want to learn and improve your understanding of a subject and potentially correct a mis-understanding. Or at least find out where your understanding is diverging.
What do you gain by digging in?
Has there never been times when you have been wrong about something? I sure as well know I have. I’ve also learnt that if my views or understanding flies in the face of conventional wisdom, then it’s good to have that view challenged and be open to understanding where I may be wrong before digging my heals in.
Or at the very least you need to come up with some pretty damm hard evidence and research as to why your thinking might be correct and conventional wisdom wrong. But just posting on forums in the hope of finding an echo chamber to support your views without any evidence, seems self-defeating.
What harm is there in engaging with Marion’s post and acknowledging the areas that you might be unclear of? If you’re genuinely open to seeing where understanding diverges I expect you could even do that via DM f oyur rather not do that in public.
Maybe try and engage, ask questions, try not to ‘win an argument’ rather seek to understand why your views might diverge from conventional wisdom and be open to changing them if need be.
At the end of the day I expect we’re probably all on the same page in terms of wanting good quality audio reproduction, hardly a partisan subject.
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AJ
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And
Are two of the most germane posts in here. I hope many people learn from them, because this debate comes up too many times in too many forums around the Internet, and it’s an insult the great engineers of the past 100 years, whose products we all rely on. Thank you.
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Don’t try that in Africa some one will have pinched the power cables 
The cable thieves still get surprise when they melt down fibre optic “cables” and get no copper, one South African province is said to be the highest exporter of copper but has no copper deposits 
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Mr. Fibble knows what he is talking about ! Sound quality is our perception of what we are hearing. Speaker positioning has a huge effect on the sound that we perceive. I am a firm believer in the “kiss” principle. Re-positioning and tweaking speaker placement doesn’t cost a penny. Bit perfect is bit perfect ! Every time we add or change a component in our “chain” of reproduction devices, we “dirty up” and alter the electrical stream which is passed on to our speakers. “Marketing” tries to convince us with numbers that device “A” sounds better than device “B”. A proper blind test will quickly reveal that perceived quality is totally subjective and depends upon the individual.
Poorly placed speakers can make a Mega$ system sound like it came from K-Mart.
Keep smiling and have a good day.
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There you go folks, it’s official, I know what I’m talking about.
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But does @cary_vokes? 
Seriously, I agree with both of you, although I’d have said, “Marketing tries to convince us with words that device A sounds better than device B”
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I have been in, up, down and all around the “Roon Sound Quality” issue. So much so I stopped using it. Fast forward to what I am using today. I have stopped using Audrivana, Mosaic, MinimServer etc etc control apps, and completely optimized my music library for use with Roon as my control app. Ok why did I do that? let me by example share one story. I was using a Roon nucleus to Run Roon. I switched to a sonic transporter server optimized for Roon. I may not understand exactly why but the Roon core running off the sonic transporter was immediately and dramatically better. SGC describes their servers as being stripped down to provide the absolute best platform for a Roon and other core apps. So what I Concluded with this reality was that Roon can actually sound different and those that are saying it are correct. I have seen my own evidence and I concluded maybe it is best to not look at the other bit perfect software control app comparisions, but look at the make up of your chain!!! I spent weeks doing A/B tests of Roon vs Minimserver/Mosaic, Audrivana and other UPnP direct streaming vs RAAT. There can be a simpler and a more direct path to your DAC like UPnP. I think audiophiles would agree that a direct path would seem to be a no brainer better way for your signal to travel. That said it took me weeks of back and forth to find more than a minuscule difference on SOME tracks that sounded different between them. I concluded when there were differences it was not impactful enough to walk away from the richness and user friendly UI that is Roon. I’ve stopped torturing myself and gone all in on just enjoying the music and therefore all in on Roon. I have really high end transparent gear and feel if there were a material differences of consistent note I would know it and I would then use the better control app given my investment. So for anyone wanting peace of mind on this subject I have shared my journey for your consideration!!
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