Sound quality is based on the operations done on the payload of a packet. As long as the packet makes it from the source to the destination, the sound quality will be the same.
An Ethernet cable only ensures that the packet gets there. It does nothing to the payload of the packet. TCP has checksum headers to ensure that the payload that leaves the source is exactly the same as the payload that arrives at the destination.
If RFI noise affects the data, the checksum fails, and the packet is retransmissed. And on a LAN, that happens in less than a millisecond.
Hi, understood and fully agreed but I didnât mention the data may be affected. I asked/wondered if one cable may carry more RF than another into the DAC, depending on their shielding designs/methods and RF rejection.
And RF carried into the DAC (for an ethernet input DAC) may cause interferences inside the DAC, especially the analogue stage (as mentioned earlier)? And hence may âsound differentâ perhaps?
Again, only asking. I wish I had all the answers but this is a tricky one
The levels of RFI noise needed are not present in the typical home. You would need to be running the cable right next to a very RFI noisy device like a generator or motor, a high power radio, or a satcom wave guide. And at that point, all ethernet traffic would be affected and you would be dropping packets.
Properly grounded shielded twisted pair or fiber optics would eliminate the RFI noise impact. But this is such an edge case that I would not worry too much about it.
General background noise in a typical home would at the very worst result in a dropped packet, which would be detected by TCP and re-transmitted in less than a millisecond or 2. And even that is an extreme edge case.
On this one, I thought I saw Brian and Danny mention theyâve seen these experiments during their time at Meridian on the effects of RFI in the home.
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I really donât know enough but I do trust that they trusted the experiments they saw at Meridian enough.
So if RFI in the home can affect a DACâs performance or analogue components performance (depending on how it itself is shielded/rejects RFI by design) I wonder again, if the RFI shielding/rejection of the ethernet cable going into a DAC may (or may not) explain why ethernet cables may sound different (depending on how they shield/reject RFI)?
For those that are lucky enough to own Meridian loudspeakers you donât need to worry - they are expertly designed and tested to shield/reject RFI but for the rest of us (myself included) I wonder if it may depend on the shielding/RFI rejection of your DAC and analogue components etc, as to whether the amount the RFI picked up by digital cables may (or may not) cause interference inside the DAC and result in different digital cables sounding different.
Again, I only point to the Meridian experience linked above (real world noise in the home) as a way to possibly consider why ethernet cables may sound different (again, maybe due to their shielding/RFI rejection designs varying from cable to cable).
So I do respect those that have heard differences in digital cables because there are plausible reasons (see the links above for the comments about testing at Meridian). And again, just to be clear, Iâm not discussing RFI affecting the digital data itself here.
Again, I donât know but itâs interesting stuff
I do remember hearing my old Blackberry next to my speaker some years ago
Interesting reads, but this is an apples to oranges comparison.
In those links, it notes that a computer is a RF noisy environment that affects sound quality. They are right. I canât argue that.
The scope of your question was whether an ethernet cable can bring that RF noise into a DAC. And that is why I answered that it is theoretically possible, but unlikely. Ethernet ports are grounded on the logic board of the system in question - in this case a DAC. And this is done for electrical safety reasons.
The recommendations of those links was to âIn an ideal situation, youâd want your DAC to be networked and far away, but if you canât do that, youâd want a bridge of some sort.â That pretty clearly states that the DAC should be networked - an assessment that I completely agree with.
I just question the need for âaudiophileâ grade Ethernet cables because no one has presented technical reasons for any difference, or at the very least, a peer reviewed double blind test which definitively proved the difference.
Oh yeah - phones create a LOT of RF noise. Putting them next to a speaker will be noticeable. But it will not affect the ethernet connection.
Excellent stuff. Now to slowly start saving for some Meridian loudspeakers where all of this is taken care of by design, from digital input to speaker outputs
Iâm sure glad my products will only ever have fiber Ethernet inputs. This way nobody will ever need to argue about which cable sounds better, or which source sounds better. To me arguing about copper cable sound is like arguing about carburetor fuel efficiency in the age of fuel injection. Great if youâre restoring classic gear for nostalgia purposes, but no place in modern gear.
Read the Siemons and T.I. Papers. The TIA / IEEE spec determine the cables performance. UTP CAT6 is noise immune (external influences) to 30MHz.
Iâm not sure what your definition of immune is. I know what mine is however.
Now if there is noise on the cable from the PCB that itâs plugged into Iâm at a loss how a 6 foot cable with copper pair is an less susceptible. All the shielding in the world isnât going to help and technically if the cable is made of silver the problem will be worse than copper.
Wireless is already high bandwidth, low latency, and powered by the computer so another power supply isnât brought into the mix to complicate stuff.
Itâs also easier to run wireless cabling vs optical/copper
Iâm failing to find a consumer A/V application in the normal use of the day that can even come close to saturating my 36-38MB/s wireless. 24/192 only takes up 1MB/s.
If RF noise were propagating down the Cat 5/6 cable, not affecting the digital data integrity, but entering the analog stage and being downconverted to perceptible noise in the audio band, then you would hear it. The system SNR would be degraded to an audible degree.
If such were the case, you could switch to a reportedly superior cable and notice a drop in the noise floor. You could swap between the cables, put your ear up to a tweeter, and hear the differences between the two noise floors. But no one actually seems to be doing that. Instead, they are operating off of faith and offering up vague comparatives, such as the specialized audio cable âjust sounded better.â
Very true but is it possible then that if someone says one cable sounds different to another, and hears blacker backgrounds perhaps, then they are actually possibly hearing two slightly different noise floors, even if they arenât using the terms SNR?
Is it also possible that different cable shielding design may (or may not) not only impact RFI but also groundloops and leakage current loops which may also be a factor in audible differences? For example a full end to end shielded design (where the shield is connected to both the end connectors) vs a floating shield design? The latter which may break groundloops and leakage current loops through the shield?
âBlacker backgroundâ really is just another audiophile cliche â it should mean a lower noise floor, higher SNR, but generally has no meaning grounded in reality.
And ask anyone who claims such âblacker backgroundâ if he has done the ear up to the tweeter comparison. That is such an easy empirical test to perform, no measurement equipment or scientific rigor required. There is practically no excuse not to do it.
I have put my ear up to my tweeters many times (with no music playing) and I can hear a terrible amount of hiss. It has nothing to do with Ethernet cables though. If I turn off my DAC and just have pre and power amps running itâs still there. Of course I donât hear it when playing music so it doesnât bother me.
I live in an old double brick house built in 1915, it has terrible wiring and funnily enough I only stumbled over the cause of the DC humming from my power amp the other day. We have a wireless doorbell, when I turned off the doorbell receiver/speaker the humming all but disappeared. I think Ethernet cables are the least of my worries.
I have tried many things to reduce RF/EMI, none of it seemed to have much effect. I purchased some expensive Isotek power cables as I needed Australian plugs for my set up but I couldnât stand the things, they were ridiculously hard to bend and get into confined spaces and also I couldnât discern any improvement to my system although the Isotek power board made quite a difference.
Hi. My NUC communicates via Wi-Fi to the router.
Is there any treatment to the ether (the mean allowing the transmission of data) present in the listening room that could improve the sound quality ?
Thanks
Sound quality isnât genally affected by the quality of the wifi connection. As long as there are no dropouts, it either works or it doesnât. Hope that helps.
