Feedback on iOS Hardware Requirements

Firstly congrats on getting the app released, I know how long getting it into the AppStore can take.

However, All iPads are proper iPads. I don’t understand why you guys are not making the App backward compatible to accommodate earlier versions of the iPad. I have an iPad2 with the latest iOS 8.4.1, I have about 100 Apps that all run just fine, as do all other streaming services; Spotify, Sonos, Netflix, iPlayer, etc. They are the same regardless of which iPad you own. I would imagine that there are still Ipad 2’s and indeed 1’s still that make up a good % of the market.

The Roon App is the first time that I have experienced an App not being supported by this device, so you are unique. This IMHO, is a fail guys. You have effectively just increased the cost of my subscription from from $119 to $518 in the first year. Not happy guys.

The reasons for the hardware requirements are reported in Danny’s post further up this thread; Models 1 and 2 had insufficient RAM, 3 and 4 couldn’t support the preferred Open3GL software.

I’m not sure what this even means. iPads (and iPhones) are computers that are currently immature in both their hardware and their OS systems. Each iteration is changing processors, ram, video standards. Just like in the late 80s/early 90s of PCs each change and iteration can deprecate what came before. Anyone buying any tablet or phone should understand that their purchase could obsolesce, perhaps pretty quickly. If you want stability then a desktop/laptop is a better choice as that market is more mature and stable.

Roon is not unique in this. Any application that requires “OpenGL ES 3.0 support” will not run on those old ipads. Just because something is new to you does not mean its not common place or common knowledge for other users.

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I read @Simon_Drinkwater’s comment as Roon being unique in terms of the ‘100’ other apps he wants to run on his current iPad, and can.

I share Simon’s frustrations - there’s not a single app I want to run on my iPad but can’t due to graphics requirements - and that includes plenty of apps with heavier graphics than Roons interface - it is, after all, a music library explorer/controller (albeit a very pretty one) :grinning:

I love Roon, so I certainly don’t argue with people defending the developers and their decisions, but I do think users should get a fair say if they feel upset that they can’t run the remote on their current hardware.

I’m now considering buying a dedicated streamer rather than upgrade all my iPads - since I didn’t want a ‘special’ single purpose iPad in the house just to control Roon - I wanted to control it from all my devices. If I’m going to pay to upgrade them all, I may as well buy a piece of dedicated hardware instead!

If this issue affects enough people, and there are resources in the future, I seriously hope the Roon guys reconsider and make a version that runs on a bigger range of hardware, even if the experience isn’t as perfect as they’d like.

In Apple terms, if you can run the latest OS, you’ve got a pretty current device. Among the lesser technically minded, I think people will be a bit confused as to why Roon won’t run.

Come on guys, rule number one of Product Management, put the customer at the centre of everything you do. As long as I can run the latest version of iOS on a device, it is current. Is there value in driving Roon from a handheld device, of course, but not for over $500. Roon is easy enough to navigate on my PC, but then again so is Tidal, so I’ll pass on being forced to buy new iPad until Apple stop supporting it, or it stops working and I’ll probably pass on renewing my Roon subscription.

There’s a Voice in my ear whispering, Richard, you have already wrote your perspective on roon’s decision re specifications for hardware for the remote app. And while you’re at it, stay out of it. Let the roon Labs team deal with their customers. After all, this isn’t a life or death issue, need for an organ transplant, a rare blood match. And those disposed to express their perspective on the matter deserve equal time and the freedom to represent their POVs.

Thank you, Voice! If I may, I love roon too. I won’t argue with members defending a position they believe is justified and are given the length and breath to express their genuine upset. And then I reached the part that of that justification that defends a POV that regards the following: “…even if the experience isn’t as perfect as they’d like…” Please note I have not included the entire text of the post (above) which I feel should have been accomplished but the proximity in time makes that post above accessible without the need to search for it.

It’s that sentence that I must contest vehemently though I am not sympathetic to the times in my past when I bought the latest and greatest and then in less time than it took to replace a used cartridge a new latest and greatest with a new cartrige arrived, blah, blah, blah. You get the picture.

I have been computing as an enthusiast since 1986. We’ve all come a long way, n’est-ce pas. I can think of (too) many devices, applications that marketed their products as backwards compatible. Emphasis on the backwards. Let me pause a moment. I am not dismissing what has been previously expressed as invalid. It’s a POV. A model of the world. And I have come to appreciate a different model of the world that just happens to validate the decisions of roon Labs in the synergy they have created as which I believe will prosper with emphasis on prosper for them and for those lifetime licensees who rely on what was originally presented as the model for roon now and, Lord knows, what the Future will bring.

Since 1986 I have witnessed the backwards compatible hardware/software struggle to innovate. I reached the conclusion that backward compatible or a device for all reasons is a decision that favors incompatiblity with the pursuit of excellence. Thank you, Voice. That about sums it up. The pursuit of excellence can be made or hobbled or complicated or conflicted with creating a “thing” that works for everyone until it doesn’t given the rapid developments of technology. You know, the more things change the more they remain the same ideology. It’s true. Except the same is the new different that we’ve always wanted but because it had to work with what came before, the what comes next is tampered with.

I do not have to make members wrong for wanting to conserve their resources in finances, present device models and feel that roon Labs should either conform to what other companies struggle with and then we have to struggle with it, or in the alternative divide and conquer and make different versions for the maddening crowd. Divide and conquer? The equation I see for that is divide and stumble along.

It’s the roon Labs innovators that has made roon as perfect, a relative term, as it presently is. It’s splendid. Perhaps, in time, it will be more splendid. We all can have our say and present our perspectives without stepping on or dismissing other members POV. This is mine, and I had to present one last time. I promise not to go there again. My Voice told me so.

Thank you danny, brian, mike, et al for starting out with a marvelous product that starts further along the contiuum of technology and into the Future. I support your pursuit of excellence.

Best,
Richard

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Rule number one of buying anything is read the minimum specification requirements and they have been on the site for some time.

Actually, I don’t think the statement of which iPads would run the Roon iOS app went up until the app was released.

That said, I can’t quibble with the Roon team’s decision on this. Once the issue was explained, it seemed to me that the powers-that-be made a reasonable decision (which individual users may choose to agree with or not, as is their right). My 3rd-gen iPad isn’t compatible, but I was planning on getting a new one anyway, so this situation just moves that purchase up the priority list.

Given that there’s a range of solutions available to those without compatible iPads (including new, used, or reconditioned iPads or Android tablets, and controlling Roon the way you were before the iOS app was released), it seems a shame to miss out on the fun just because you’re disappointed … but that’s certainly up to the individual user.

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Hello David,

Well said!
Best,
Richard

PS,
You, too, Nick. It’s like telling Apple don’t innovate. Make sure the next OSX includes my old Mac. I am not judging those who resist for whatever reasons matching the specifications set by roon Labs. I am addressing those POV who acknowledge that roon Labs has changed the UI/UX/EM for all times and anything other must endure the comparison with the model roon has set. Excuse me for being grateful for excellence. The toll one pays to cross the bridge to that excellence is not backwards compatible according to the vision of roon Labs. Consider what it took to create the very model we acknowledge as breaking the model. What compares to roon? How did they accomplish roon? What makes us gravitate to roon? How do we support them? You choose.

It is what it is I guess, but I don’t agree it could not be done on a ‘lesser’ iPad.
There are impressive and more demanding games/demos available. Ever seen Epic Citadel on even the iPad 1? Where is it lacking graphics power? I’m not expecting support for something Apple has forgotten but I’m sure that with some care it actually could run Roon perfectly.

It seems to be that Roon started it’s life for PC/Mac in this version and this is the least demanding way to port it to iPad (basically the same but exported for iOS?) with the limited resources available and I do understand that but it is not a question of power, certainly not in the iPad 4. The need for Power, OpenGL3 and 64bit doesn’t seem to bother the Android users that sideload the apk :wink:

I understand how this can be discouraging, especially if you have multiple iPads that won’t run the iOS app, but the Roon guys have 'splained this pretty thoroughly, and early on in this thread @Carl provided a pretty succinct answer:

And there you go. Like it or not (and you certainly don’t have to), that’s the deal.

Apple dropped the price of the Mini2 to $269 last week. Considering the Mini2 was available in Apple’s refurb store for $249 prior to the price drop, expect it to show up there in the near future for a little over $200.

I’ve had mine a couple of weeks now and the Mini2 makes for an outstanding Roon remote.

That’s what we did, when we decided to release the app when it went out, instead of holding it up for many more months while we supported old hardware.

These were hardware requirements of 64bit and OpenGL ES 3.0, not software requirements, so the iOS version has nothing to do with it.

Did you get a chance to see my post above? I clarify our position and how we got here.

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Hi Guys,

There are some new features in IOS9 that are not support on the older ipads.

I’ve just come across this thread: I have to say that I was pretty gutted to find that my ipad 4 - which happily runs several graphically and data intensive (eg google earth) apps very competently - was incompatible with Roon, following the release of the roon ios app.

Over the preceding months I had watched roon progress and decided that I had the confidence to buy a lifetime subscription which I did in August. Clearly I should have read the fora more closely as I completely missed the compatibility information. I did not enjoy listening to music with a laptop on my lap and was looking forward to binning JRemote in favour of a much richer experience. I am sure that the usage stats recorded by my installation of Roon will show a sad tale of neglect when initial enthusiasm was so high.

I’m not angry, trying to pick a fight or indignant…just disappointed. Clearly a line needed to be drawn in the sand somewhere but it is a shame that so many customers are shut out without yet another significant investment - I don’t need 2 ipads.

It would be interesting to understand what elements of the UI/UX are so bleeding edge to require the latest hardware - it’s a lovely experience but nothing jumps out to me as being impossible to do on near older kit. It’s clear from the above comments that this probably isn’t the case and it’s a question of the cost of maintaining a 32-bit and a 64-bit app concurrently, along with potentially some limitations around the code differences between v2 and 3 of openGL which makes it unprofitable to develop. I guess the consideration from future customers is similar too…how much are we willing to pay for this experience?

[quote=“crom, post:95, topic:3227”]
I don’t need 2 ipads
[/quote]Neither did I, I sold my iPad4 and got an iPadAir2 net cost about £200 which I was happy with [disclaimer I did this for other reasons before I knew that the Roon iOS app required it] . There are some good deals out there don’t just look at the retail price of a new iPad … did you see @PRE post he did very well.

That’s a good call @Carl. I will need to look into doing similar…we need cowboom in the UK!

I do not understand why it will not work on a brand new iPhone 6+. It has plenty of screen resolution and CPU power.

@Steve_Lees Do you mean it won’t work after you’ve loaded it, or, that you cannot download it for your phone. If it is the later, I would assume for the same reason the Android version is not allowed to be downloaded onto my Note. And that would be because the interface is not designed for that small a screen size.

To be usable for normal people, the whole interface and options would need to be changed. . Because the scale of the screen maintains, most people do not have eyes that can read microscopic text or fingers small enough to effectively select such a 1 or 2 pixel screen target. Realistically, a phone size screen would allow you to just choose playback options, pause, start, next, previous. It would also be a different development product. I did manage to get it loaded onto my Note, though, and even with the stylus it was hard to use for anything more than basic playback remote functions.

A tablet size (8.0 inches or greater) is really needed to begin selecting and searching individual music. And I would argue that if you are going to do any meta-data fixing, a desktop is the way to go.

Not even an option to download it…