I have the HRTF xtalk filters and have done now for a couple of years… I moved straight from the generic crosstalk reduction filters so cannot comment on the more general head model.
I have just spent a day or two switching between my original xtalk, non-xtalk and HRTF filters and, although not as obvious an improvement/effect as non-xtalk to xtalk, there is a subtle improvement.
The sound is more realistic to me as I suppose it should - tailored to my ears… the last couple of days playing around reconfirm them as my primary filters.
Just working with Thierry on filters for my new speakers (Amphion Argon 7LS) - I am reminded that he has the patience of a saint, given how much my preferences seem to lurch around!
I would like to compliment and highly recommend Thierry’s filters. I can’t speak for the generic xtalk but I have his HAF room correction filter plus the personalised head xtalk which involves your own head measurements.
The effect in my case depends entirely on the music being played and varies a lot. The HAF makes a subtle but definite improvement across the board (it will depend on how much correction your room needs in the first place) but the xtalk is different: with classical and older pop/rock music it is subtle or perhaps non existent, with well produced contemporary jazz it is more pronounced and excellent. But with contemporary, more elaborately produced indie pop/rock the difference is huge and is remarkable, the sound stage is much wider and there is often a surround sound effect whereby instruments literally sound as if they are coming from rear left or right. It is enveloping. At first I was, with certain tracks, experiencing a weird and slightly uncomfortable effect in my ears with the mid to upper bass notes, a very mild version of the compression one feels on dropping altitude in a plane perhaps, which left me unable to listen to the music concerned for long. Thierry offered to try correcting this if I sent him a sample of the music concerned but I think I have maybe adapted to it - not sure, more trial is needed for there.
I will add that the software I used for my measurements was a beta version of Thierry’s own new software. Apart from a couple of minor blips it is excellent, including being able to play back each sample to check it has recorded properly. Very straightforward to use and graphically elegant and non fussy. I’ve never used REW, Thierry says his is easier to use and I have no reason to doubt that.
Thierry’s communication, level of service and commitment to getting you to where you want to be is to be commended.
I have a question for the users of HAF: Do you apply the headroom reduction when using HAF convolution filter?
HAF filters are not boosting volume but just reducing. Unfortunately I see always the clipping indicator blinking if I don’t apply headroom.
Is it the same for you? Can the indicator be ignored in this case?
I’m against the volume reduction in digital domain as I found out that it degrade the sound quality in a very resolving system.
I use volume leveling in Roon which takes care of it, I don’t think its a good idea to do it as part of filters, but ask Thierry about it he should know.
I always use some headroom for HAF filters - crosstalk correction filters need less than the standard ones. As I understand it some of the apparent clipping is coming from the phase correction and may or may not be audible. I do also use volume levelling but don’t find this addresses clipping for all tracks.
It’s safer to limit volume a bit (-3dB to start with). Clipping will depend on your correction. Tracks for testing : Billie Jean by M Jackson or Hanuman by ROdrigo & Gabriela on 11:11. If it doesn’t clip on these it will likely not clip for other tracks
I started to experiment a bit with REW and explored its intricacies to cure a huge bass resonance created by the left speaker which initially led me to believe that a defective frequency switch could be the culprit.
Setup is as follows:
Cambridge 851N, Nubert Nuvero 140 speakers, Nubert Amp A
With that enormous bass peak you can imagine how poor the SQ was. Next step was to take the time tested Monitor Audio RX6 and measured them in the same position only to find out that the overall effect was the same albeit with lower peak levels at similar frequencies which is not a surprise given the size of the Nuvero 140 drivers. So there went the theory about the defective frequency switch and now the room was left to look at. It is a fairly large, asymmetrical room which I would have never considered to be so bad for setting up a mid range stereo set, but you don’t know what you don’t know.
Here is a pic of the room, listening distance is about 330 cm with base of 270 cm between the speakers.
Then I went on to try REW filtering and created a number of filters that looked OK on paper, but did not meet my expectations. So I turned to Thierry after learning about him on this very forum and sent him a number of files for different setups (bass ports plugs, low frequency switch settings on the speakers) for evaluation. He responded very quickly and communicated with me over the weekend (!) to clear up a few things and sent me a filter set the same day.
The result is impressive to say the least. Sound stage wider, listening area expanded (x-talk generic filter), everything more transparent and after hearing through 10-15 example across my library I am convinced that this is the best money I spent on any so called improvement.
Spending serious money on cables, better speakers or DAC is money wasted without getting the room correction done beforehand. I likely come back with my TV room set up early next year.
So a big Thank You to Thierry for his great work, his patience and dedication to the customer.
I just decided to join the community and would like to thank you for your kind feedback !
It is always good to see that customers are rediscovering their systems thanks to the corrections.
@Home_Audio_Fidelity, Thierry, it’s about time you are integrating in here, as a good number of Roon users have used your service. As you know, you created wonderful filters for stereo and MCH use in five different systems in our home.
I’m not up to speed, but wondering if you’ve figured a way to use your Room Shaper product in Roon, and if so, how to implement. Thanks. JCR
Unfortunately there is still no straightforward solution to use Room Shaper with Roon. The ball is in Roon team hands to eventually propose third parties DSP modules. Direct integration of Room Shaper code is not at the agenda of the development team.
If many users are showing interest in DSP (which is the future) it can certainly influence priorities in Roon team backlog
The “VST plugins in Roon” discussion has been ongoing for several years, the main problem is that VST plugins have GUI and calculations in same thread, which makes it unsuited for Roon’s distributed architecture.
Adding support in HQPlayer is also an option, but HQPlayer is also a (in some cases) distributed architecture and I don’t think @jussi_laako is very keen on VST plugin support either.
On the other hand, it don’t have to be VST if you have developers on both sides, it can be a custom made protocol like for example Roon - HQPlayer.
I do use headroom reduction, -3.1 dB, as I read some articles that recommend that when there is upsampling from 44 kHz to 96+ kHz.
While there’s a potential for distortions with digital volume, Roon applies headroom correction in 64 bit float. The distortions from this are far smaller than even the theoretical minimum distortions in an analog volume control, and real world analog distortion always exceeds theoretical minimums.
Thierry’s filters are beyond excellent, better than anything I’ve seen commercially from hardware manufacturers such as Anthem. I recommend his services without any reservations.
I don’t know if my system (Bryston 3.14 streamer, Benchmark AHB2 power amp, Focal Sopra 3 speakers, acoustically corrected dedicated listening room) would be considered highly revealing, but there is no straight path I’ve tried that comes even close to Thierry’s filters with headroom correction. This applies to frequency smoothness, stereo imaging, everything. Best value for money I have received on any part of my system, hardware or software.
Hello @Kuryan_Thomas and thanks for your kind feedback !
Hello @Magnus , yes the easiest way would be to have a specific protocol. Adapting plugins will be easy as the core of all DSP processing is just a function getting a buffer of samples as input data and generating a modified version as output…
I have suggested before that Roon makes some custom input/output functionality that can be inserted into the DSP engine, then software like yours could attach to that input/output. This could for example be audio endpoints, but it really just needs to be a way to send and receive a data-stream according to some simple protocol.
With such a functionality in place, Dirac could also quite easily add functionality to work with Roon.
Good to have you here. I’m having trouble opening the Windows folder on the Google Drive share. I have a copy of the demo dll from May but wondering if there is a newer and wanted to try the stand-alone app instead of Foobar with VST addins. It seems to work OK but I presume the standalone app can be set to auto start and hopefully avoids the occasional Foobar crash.
Please advise on the Google Drive access
You’ve made several sets of convo filters for me over the past few years. Still use many of them regularly for different room setups.
My current config is RoonServer on Windows with virtual cable to Foobar with VST support, then onto HQPe for upsampling and convolution and then to NAA endpoint.
Room Shaper is truly adding that final touch my reverberant room was needing. Bravo!
