Has the software quality fallen off a cliff?

Well, a discussion like this one is never going to amount to more than a few data points, but for what it’s worth, I haven’t been able to use Roon in about a month now. First the screen just stayed blank, never loading any actual content. Then I finally got the courage to troubleshoot and decided to see if logging off and on again would help, and now I can’t connect to my server. Knowing that the app, the files and the server are actually all on the same Mac…

But while I’m facing catastrophic failure right now, I’m not sure it’s a sign that things have gone down. They’ve never been that great to start with, it’s always been clear that Roon is being made by a very small team, and a lot of the qualitative effort goes towards the networking side of things. The app itself has never been a grand piece of software, it’s always been a bit slow, unwieldy. To me that’s been ok, the uniqueness of what it does matters more than pure performance.

You called yourself out :wink: ok please bear with me.

As someone who spends time reading just about every post from people running Roon on NAS, I don’t see how you come to this conclusion. The percentage of people on here having problems with Nucleus, ROCK, macOS, etc., seems to be significantly higher. Most people’s problems on NAS seem to center on SMB credentialing issues.

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I find it particularly interesting that it always seems to be bashing or sanctification. Sometimes I get the feeling that this has become a little like with Apple. Either you are a complete and utter fanboy, not acknowledging any issues and always blaming the user or people are bashing all over. Now, I am not free of said emotions, I myself have bashed quite a few times when decisions have been made that made me wonder: I cannot think of one single user scenario where a particular change could make any sense possibly. For example, I still think it has been a catastrophic decision on Roon’s side to check for the license online practically every five minutes. Rendering music files useless on my network which I physically own, to me just seems like temporary theft. Even more catastrophic since superior cloud features, which have shown to be so slow that I really don’t like to use thise, were used as an argument for their online only philosophy. I’m living in Germany… despite stuff people stereotypically believe, Internet stability here sometimes makes you feel like you were living in a far less developed country. Software Engineers out there be aware: even in 2024 Internet outages DO HAPPEN. And I would very much love to still be able to listen to music I physically own - even when internet is down.

Maybe it would be good to be a little more nuanced… users normally want a working set up and are not interested in a blame game.

In the past my criticism of Roon has mostly been about strategic decisions they have taken and not about stability and performance of software.

For me personally the software is a lot less stable than it use to be. Not able to display any albums after the app has been in background for seconds which can only be solved by Swiping up and rebooting the Remote App. The remote app losing sync with what is actually replayed at the moment. Also I have noticed that it takes forever for the remote applications to find the server again after a server reboot. In the past this has been a matter of seconds. Records that don’t show up while clearly being stored in the right folder, etc.

It’s a lot of small issues. Issues so small that you are sometimes reluctant to spend time and report it on a forum, yet still annoying because the software has been more stable in the past.

Furthermore I am always astonished when people make comments on how other people might just not be able to set up a proper network, not knowing their circumstances. Personally, I am not a third level supporter but perfectly capable of successfully setting up and maintaining a stable home network, including port forwarding for Roon ARC.

Especially when in most cases the set up was working fine for years. Considering my personal network audio setup absolutely nothing has changed within the last two years or so, yet the stability and performance of the software have steadily declined. I think that is the case for many users and I don’t think it is very productive to primarily assume that people just don’t know what they are doing. Even more so if the set up had been working fine for years before.

And one more remark: Telling people how laggy, faulty and buggy UPnP is, because there’s no real standard, is one of Roon’s major selling points. So I do think that it should be one of the primary goals to provide users with a good solution for standard scenarios without them having to be third level supporters. And that has been the case as far as I’m concerned. But these days I can’t have the Roon Remote App opened in the background for 30 seconds and still expect it to work properly when coming back to it.

We all just want a solution that is working properly, because after all it’s a great piece of software and it’s without a real alternative in the market.

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And under specified processors and low RAM

Just my take

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Not sure if you noticed that this works again.

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I have not, obviously :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

The last discussion about this topic I had been following, Roon’s comment was “not on the roadmap”.

Glad if it works now

The questionable decision has been undone with the update in early February

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My experience is just as good, what’s more, the latest updates seem like a great success to me, and compared to other software, I have used (and use) many, in comparison it seems, without a doubt, much more stable, I have not had any problems with display of anything, I would say that you have some graphical problem with the devices. In my case I use Mac mini M1 as Core, 24 hours and without interruptions or problems of any kind.

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I find a lot of Roon’s claimed “instability” or poor software quality simply is because it’s dealing with less-than-ideal conditions that some users decide to run it. Of course, if you’re running a low-spec Atom processor with 2GB of RAM, you’re not going to have a fun time with any library of size. I’m currently running it on a dedicated modern mini-PC with an Intel N100, 16GB RAM, and an NVMe boot SSD. Roon gets installed on top of Ubuntu 22.04 LTS with routine updates and patching, and a couple additional docker containers for connectivity (tailscale, cloudflared).

I’ve not really had any day to day stability issues. Even with ARC (which is not port forwarded through my UniFi network setup, but rather connected via Tailscale), the connections have been rock stable.

The only issue I had was an apt-get upgrade that broke systemd unexplicably on an install level. However, with proper backups and imaging that I do daily, I was able to reimage and bring the system back up in 15 minutes into a perfect state again.

I really don’t blame the devs here in cases of instability. I do think it’s bad sysadmin practices that lead to a lot of claimed issues here and there and there is only so much that can be done.

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I concur. I have had some good success creating tickets. The last thing I need to really deal with is search slowness. I have a large library and too many un-identified albums. I am chipping away at that. I have been assured it is being worked on. I agree November marked a day moment for quite few Roon users. It was working so well for me prior to that. I am hanging in there.

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The biggest joke of this: other software I use (Foobar, JRiver) using UPnP do a better job on my network than Roon does in terms of responsiveness or Channel Mapping and Downmixing.
Switching between songs of different channel layouts and/or bitdepths work flawlessly without any delay. When I do this in Roon, there is always a delay of a few seconds with a dot on the wavebar, spinning from left to right.
Play a quad file to a stereo output in Foobar and JRiver and they will correctly downmix them to stereo.
Roon does not. Well, it did almost three years ago. I have opened a ticket at that time, it was acknowledged that this problem exists and after that never had been and apparently never will be solved.

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Notwithstanding the fact that you shouldn’t need to… have you still not (using foobar/whatever) downmixed your quad files to stereo files for playback through Roon?

Yeah I have to agree , the user experience is certainly a lot worse than a few years ago.
So much so that I am seeking an alternative to ROON………bad news there is nothing quite like it :grinning:
A frustrated user here who hopes the issues are sorted

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I’m in the same place as you Graham_Ridgway

Totally agree. ;,-(

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This is on a 200/200 mBit connection (8ms), and nothing has changed except for the constant Roon updates.

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A common trope is that those with no problems seldom comment. I’ll rectify that. roon has always worked exactly as advertised for me (well I did mistakenly mess up the database, but that’s on me). I run it on a run of the mill PC with the music files on an SSD (which contrary to recommendations is on that same run of the mill PC). roon remote on my PIxel 6 (previously on a Pixel 4) and a Samsung tablet has never failed. The music is played through either Sonos Ones or Roam or through audio Chromecast connected to also run of the mill devices (Bose and JVC). I do not use early access. I use rioon every day. I wish the metadata providers were better, of course, but I know that would be possible only if they cost considerably more (I am old enough to remember - fondly - the Schwann catalog which one had to buy). (I use Discogs with the music cataloger OrangeCD and it has problems, too.)

I have ARC on the PIxel and use Android Auto and only run into problems when I drive into one of Rogers’ (the mobile provider) many dead zones.

My only complaint? roon hasn’t implemented Bookmarks on ARC.

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Of course you could do that. But that’s not the point. The point is that Roon is faulty on that one for years without any attempt to solve the problem. And that should not be the case for such a product.

Well, yes. I’m just surprised that you haven’t actually done it. You would have far more control of the end result as well, rather than relying on a generic ‘downmix’ that, no matter how well implemented, may still not do what you want for any specific four channel file. There seems to be plenty of disagreement about what is ‘correct’ anyway.

You pointed to the #1 issue I have with Roon: constant updates that go through the network without user control. The annoying popup for every update, and not having the option for roll back.

@Graham_Ridgway

Has the software quality fallen off a cliff?

Not unless you have dropped it off a cliff

It’s been great for a long time, feels pretty rubbish at the moment.

Create a feedback thread pinpointing the areas you feel are pretty rubbish.

Am I alone in thinking this?

There are bugs with Roon, that others have flagged via support threads.

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