@Thomas_Danaher only thing is that if you want something with no aspect of it made in China, you’ll have to really dig to find it. It’s a narrow list. My Hegel H90 doesn’t specify where it’s made, just says Hegel, Oslo, Norway. But I had researched ahead of time and knew it was manufactured in China. I believe, could be wrong, but think their high end stuff (H590?) is made in Norway.
I get where you’re coming from. I recently bought a Marantz Model 30 and the fact it was made in Japan was a plus. At the same time, I could happily own a Dutch designed, but China manufactured Primaluna.
Yes, to varying degrees, many of these companies are cagey about the China part. But a quick google search prior to purchase will reveal the truth, and you can make an informed decision from there.
And that Marantz model 30 uses the NCore NC500 amplification module by hypex
Hypex, while headquartered in the Netherlands, has its production facility in Malaysia.
That production facility builds the circuit boards using components, many of which are made in China
So even if something is ‘Made in Japan’, that has so little meaning in the modern world where everything comes from various countries through global supply chains
US Customs requires that every imported product be marked with the Country of Origin. The “majority value added” country determines the Country of Origin. If the Country of Origin is not marked, Customs will hold imported products at the border.
Occasionally, mistakes occur in the factory and the marks aren’t included. The importer must then arrange for Country of Origin marks to be added manually to each item (both on the item itself and on the item’s carton). It’s costly and a huge nuisance but failing to mark the products results in them stranded at the border.
For continued violations, the importer faces losing his Customs Entry Bond, an extremely high expense that also jeopardizes his ability to import ever again.
US Customs can’t inspect every single shipment so it conducts random searches at the border, while counting on the honesty (and the above penalties) of the importers.
Hegel is not making occasional mistakes. They’ve been around long enough to know they are required to mark every single product “MADE IN CHINA.” How they illegally skirt US Customs is a good question but that’s not my beef: it’s Hegel’s intentional deceit in leading consumers to believe their products are made in Norway when in fact they are made in CHINA.
At least there is a bit of bad taste. Customers are lead to believe the product is made in a high labor price European country. Made in a country that shares western values, especially regarding human rights. Hence maybe accepting the certainly not modest price. Well … everybody as he likes.
Very fair points. I’m not in the “China is bad” camp, thus it’s not a big issue for me. That said, I have high regard for Japanese manufacturing in general, and even if the parts come from everywhere, I still hold the “Made in Japan” part in high esteem. For instance, the build quality on the Japanese made Marantz Model 30 is vastly superior to the higher priced China made Hegel H120. At least in terms of the chassis and knobs, and I assume, the internal wiring as well. But the external build quality is in a different league.
You have every right to complain. And yes, Hegel, among others, are not properly forthright. When I shopped for Hegel’s, I looked at the back of the device and saw the “Hegel, Oslo, Norway” part, but because it did not say “Made in Norway”, I quickly concluded Hegel must be playing the common high end audio shell game. A quick google search proved my hypothesis. And I bought it anyway.
Hopefully your dealer was able to issue you a full refund.
I purchased their H190 only after Hegel advised it would be Roon ready “very soon.” I’d read their apology saying they’d run late on their promises for about a year, so I figured they were close.
But it’s been 12 more months since then and my H190 is still not Roon ready.
Further, I discovered Hegel is manufactured in CHINA. Not Norway as they’d have you think. I avoid China products as a rule and feel I was tricked.
Hegel even covered the “Made in China” (required import marking) on the H190 with adhesive product stickers. They’re obviously hiding this. Not sure how Hegel got around this requirement on the outside carton.
Fooled me once (no Roon)… fooled me twice (Made in China)… I’m done with Hegel permanently.
It’s hardly a trade secret - it has been widely reported for some time, including articles such as this one:
Whilst I would agree that covering the place of origin with stickers could be perceived as rather disingenuous, and they certainly emphasise their Norwegian roots, I personally don’t share this sense of being tricked.
Even Darko’s article implies Hegel is Made in Norway (“Hit the North”).
Instead, this should be on Hegel’s website: MADE IN CHINA.
That Hegel is purposely hiding this info tells you something.
I for one, wouldn’t have purchased.
Instead I was led to believe that Hegel was made in Norway. I definitely feel cheated.
I hear you and I’ve gone down this no-made-in-china road before. I wanted to see if I could completely eliminate made-in-china products in my life. As I’d drawn graph on a very very big piece of paper (made in USA), I realized that I’d have to post message to this Roon forum using Pigeon mail to NSA’s IT department.
The reality is that my phone, laptop, and practically all electronics in my house have made-in-china or not-made-in-USA components. Another reality is that lots of high quality manufacturers are in Asia. My Apple iPhone, iPad, and MacBook are all made in China and they have top-notch quality. When Japanese cars first came to America, they were absolutely garbages. Broke down all the time. Now, Japanese cars continued to be the most reliable cars in the world. Even Ford and GM are using Japanese parts and lots of car parts are also made in Asia (China, Thailand, Taiwan, Korea, etc).
Back to audiophile stuff, my favorite sounding tubes are from China too and my favorite DAC is Holo Audio May DAC, which is made with love in China.
If Hegel had manufactured its products in Norway 100%, the price of its products would be more than double, no? Does Hegel have a silicon foundry to make its own chips?
I for one is grateful that I get to enjoy a superiorly designed product that has high QC standard at an affordable price.
Sure the debacle on Roon delay is a huge negative, but the positive thing is that not a lot of companies nowadays insist on “doing it right”. (If that’s really the only reason…). If adding Roon readiness to its firmware would negatively affect the rest of the SQ, I’d rather wait. Adding RasPi4 & ropieee is a small price to pay as a stop-gap solution. I mean… it’s a couple hundred bucks. A drop in the bucket in the grade scale of money we’d all spent on our gears.
Hegel can produce in China, I only ask that they be upfront and straight about it, saying MADE IN CHINA somewhere on their site. Also on their products (it’s required by US Customs BTW). Hegel is consciously hiding this fact; indeed Hegel misleads ppl into thinking they produce in Norway. NOT KOSHER
Also, Roon-ready really mattered to me. I told this to Hegel before I made my purchase. Hegel told me ONE YEAR AGO, “the H190 is planned for Roon Endpoint release this autumn.” I purchased based on their promise. Now I can accept a reasonable delay but they’re pushing a delay of an additional 1/2 years to date.
Obviously Hegel has real problems telling the truth. For me that’s a deal-breaker. I do not trust them nor should anyone. PS: I also stopped buying from their dealer.
I do agree that it’d be ideal to disclose the proper information. Your point is fair.
Labeling on their product is required by the US custom but in this case, it’s problematic. It’d likely require a ruling from CBP to determine the labeling. When a product is assembled in a country but has raw materials/components from multiple countries, a ruling is usually required by CBP. Besides, CBP’s requirement is really just about collecting tariff.
I guess the most transparent way is to disclose all the countries of origin for all components and raw materials and assembly countries. Probably at least a dozen countries?
Also, “MADE IN CHINA” is different from “ASSEMBLED IN CHINA”. Hegel’s assembled in China, but the amp is shipped back to Norway for final QC, as far as I know. To be fair, the most important part of the amp is “made” in Norway with all those brains there. So, I don’t think it’s fair to say that the amp is MADE in China. My iPhone has huge number of labours invested in its hardware and software design in California. It’s quite disrespectful to say my iPhone is “made” in China because that’d be a complete dismissal of all the love and sweats put into the development of it.
My point is that any disclosure of a single country of origin is pointless.
As to the promise of delivery of Roon readiness, I can sympathize with that as I’m in software business for decades. Over promising users about a feature is sure to disappoint them. This happens a lot when the “marketing” side of the company doesn’t consult with the software team before promising. Now, they are scared like a little puppy to give ETA again because of the outrage from the Hegel customers.
For what is worth, my Hegel dealer told me that Hegel is assembled in China and QC in Norway.
@Thomas_Danaher I salute you for having a set of criteria in selecting gears and can cross off brands you don’t like. Totally respect that. We all have different selection criteria. I’m sure that’s one common thing among us audiophile.
P.S.: I’m mad that my newly purchased 100% made in USA Magnespan didn’t disclose that the fuse on it is off-the-shelf fuse from China. Ok… ok… I was only mad for 2 seconds.
That is true. I have seen on FB Anders pics of new amps in warehouse where they ship to clients and retailers.
I have no issues if amps are assambled in china. I do however worry about roon ready progression silence. I think there is some major issues they cant solve and quietly trying to forget it. I hope i’m wrong but there has been nothing from Anders why such a delay still.
The Country of Origin rule is not complicated, it’s wherever the majority cost is incurred. For this reason, Magnespan didn’t need to disclose their Chinese fuse.
FYI, Customs does not consider design or similar intellectual property costs in their calculation. This is simply because no one can put an accurate (ie, verifiable) price on them. Similarly, Customs excludes advertising and marketing costs… these are higher on most apparel products, which are produced overseas for literally a few cents on the retail dollar. That’s why we don’t see Levi jeans, Nike shoes, Disney costumes, etc., etc., etc marked “Made in USA.”
I designed textiles in the USA, we also did extensive QC and advertising here. The products were woven, printed and packed in Portugal and the country of origin was always Portugal. Hegel’s chief cost is Chinese labor or parts; their products must be marked MADE IN CHINA.
As an aside, Hegel surely doesn’t conduct QC in Norway on 100% of their products… QC inspection rates are typically below 2-3%.
How Apple gets it’s products marked “Assembled in China” is because of complex sets of components but also likely due to enormous pressure put on US Customs by this behemoth. It shows that every company wants to hide MADE IN CHINA. Hegel feels this too, which is apparently why they hide MADE IN CHINA on their website and everywhere else (promotional material, packaging, blog posts, etc.)
Lastly: why doesn’t Hegel physically mark their products with ANY Country of Origin – it’s a US Customs requirement! Is your Hegel marked? Mine isn’t. Hegel is not only hiding… this is ILLEGAL.
So, I don’t think it’s fair to say that the amp is MADE in China. My iPhone has huge number of labours invested in its hardware and software design in California. It’s quite disrespectful to say my iPhone is “made” in China because that’d be a complete dismissal of all the love and sweats put into the development of it.
Ok… ok… I was only mad for 2 seconds.