HQPlayer Embedded new feature - equal loudness curves

Thanks for this great addition @jussi_laako !

Extremely useful for lower level listening

Maybe add the curves you are using to the ‘help’ screen? Like RME share in their user manual?


I’m not using any. But you can now freely configure your own.

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Maybe not for the manual then, but in this thread can you share an example how to produce the following?

Some guidance?

I would have thought the “steepness” values are what would change automatically for HQP dBFS values between the set upper and lower bound values?

So I’m confused what fixed values would need to manually enter for steepness, if that is a changing value?

I would also like to understand how this equal loudness feature works in HQ Player. An implementation like RME or Jriver would be great but I’m also confused by the fixed values.
Is it only for the embedded version or does the desktop version have it too?

IIRC, ADI-2 has configurable corner points for bass and treble controls which are used for the loudness too. So check out what are the frequencies there.

No, steepness is not changing in those RME plots either. Only the level, IOW amount of bass and treble boost.

In those plots, max amount of loudness seems to be 10 dB over 40 dB range. These values are configurable in HQPlayer, just as the loudness frequency corner points and curve steepness.

You can play with “lshelf” and “hshelf” EQ’s to come up with values you want using the plot feature and then use those for the post-process plugin settings.

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I think RME and JRiver have more hardcoded (non-modifiable / non-visible) fixed values than HQPlayer which gives you control over the frequencies and levels you want to adjust and also the range where this is effective.

Thanks @jussi_laako. I think I get it now. Just downloaded the trial desktop version to play around and see how it works with Roon. Is the equal loudness feature also coming to the desktop version?

Yes, in next release. I’m working on a new release, but it always takes some time to make.

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I use -8dB headroom for convolution. I use my physical preamp volume control and rarely HQPe DSP volume. It sounds better, the gain matches more favorably I suppose.

If I wanted a modest loudness curve to begin at -10dB and increase more and more until -40dB how would I set this up?

Looking forward to trying out this new feature in the desktop version!

Yep, ADI-2 supports max bass & treble boost of 10dB over range of 20dB

They show 30dB and 40dB range in their plots, only to show no further change in max. boost, compared with 20 dB range plot.

So 20dB, 30dB and 40dB range plots are all the same shape.

I’m definitely not pointing to the RME plots as some kind of ideal though. Since I use ADI-2 loudness, I’m only referring to it as a starting point for setting up in HQPe. And I can then adjust from there later, if I find ‘better’ plots to use.

If I use the following in HQPe, would you say this is pretty close to the RME plots?

Bass freq @ 200 Hz
Bass steepness @ 0.5
Treble freq @ 8000 Hz
Treble steepness @ 0.5

Bass level and treble level @ 10 ?

Using a range 20dB range

:+1:Great. Looking forward to it.

Great idea to share plots and numbers here.

No, clearly not, by just looking at the plots I tried these values and got pretty close:

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Nice, thanks for that.

So based on this (using RME’s plots just starting point, not necessarily the ideal) :

Bass freq = 60 Hz
Bass steepness = 1.0
Treble freq = 3000 Hz
Treble steepness = 1.0

My personal preference on the RME is:
Bass level = 10
Treble level = 7

But people can adjust these levels to taste. Or if they want to use a different loudness contour.

At least this might help others with something to start with.

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Assuming that there is some idea that loudness compensation is related to Fletcher-Munson, why is the treble raised? Treble curves are more or less parallel at different levels according to Fletcher-Munson.

As Jussi mentioned, you can make it whatever you like… he has included this flexibility.

You can make it match whatever equal loudness contour you want. Whether Fletcher-Munson or your nextdoor neighbour’s idea.

Don’t take the plots shown in this thread as any kind of gospel… I tried to emphasise this a few times but clearly failed.

Have you figured out what range lower/higher bound affect?

I would like loudness to begin at -10dB volume setting in HQPe but not apply at all at -8dB.

So make upperbound -10 and lowerbound -30

But poor -9 is in “no mans land” ?? :grinning:

Loudness will not be in effect at -9 with these settings

Thanks, I’ll give it a try. I could use -9 I suppose. I don’t typically adjust volume using HQPe though…I use my preamp.

I just wanted to be sure loudness would not be enabled at my default -8.