I don't agree with censoring the forum to make Roon look better

I will respond to this comment, but am not wishing to have a tit for tat about the concept of never, or if you prefer, choice of vocabulary.

Whilst we can each create hypotheticals or use outliers as examples, I will still suggest that the choice of the word never is verging on antagonistic.

Would Tesla make a petrol car? Highly unlikely. :slight_smile:

Would Telsa never make a petrol car? I don’t know!

There is a clear difference.

What if Tesla…clean fossil fuel was possible, reserves were found & Elon Musk saw it’s newfound benefits and decided he could incorporate this new technology?

What if statements are virtually meaningless as we don’t know. What we can say with a great deal of certainty is that it is highly unlikely.


“Highly unlikely” provides a glimmer of hope, which is more than I’d be willing to give for these two ideas. The entire point of using a word like never is to not give false hope. But if you want to go with the definition that “highly unlikely” is the same odds that Tesla will make a gasoline-powered car, I’m all for it. I just think it’s easier to say “never”.


It’s realistic, not antagonistic. It’s best for Roon to be absolutely clear about their plans when they have clarity about them. Roon is a small company, they have made certain design choices, the last thing they or us current customers need is distraction from some other people’s hopes for features that can’t happen in practice. If suddenly folders and UPnP take off and leave Roon in the dust, that’s capitalism’s way of matching supply and demand.

As someone with a senior position in a large, well-funded company, one of the hardest things I do is to convince people that the fact that something might just possibly be interesting is not enough reason to pursue it. Roon doesn’t have that luxury, and they save themselves lots of grief by being totally clear about their boundaries.


Thanks Danny, I do understand where you are coming from & your position is & has been clearly stated.

We digress from this thread and discussing terminology now & I fear it will be closed down as we segue into other territories.

Thanks mate. :smiley:

Well, I disagree. It’s a challenging way of stating matters. It is farther from clear as very little we know about is never. I say this coming from a science background & (not working in a well-funded large company), such as yourself. So, we just see this matter differently.

This merely backs up my point with the use of the word never. I would suggest that Roon would be flexible and not fall by the wayside as your analogy suggests.

Further, as we don’t know what the future holds, so this matter isn’t finite. It may just occur that the development team changes & they hold varying views. Nothing is static in this realm as I view matters.

Again we digress here from the topic of this thread, so on that basis I will leave it at that.


***I think it’s worth mentioning here, that I do not hold out hope for the implementation of UPnP or folder browsing. However, I don’t view its discussion as moot. If people enjoy exploring other opportunities & discussing those with one another, I don’t see the issue. If it were a moot point, subsequent discussions would not persist.

“Roon has no plans at this time to pursue…”

If you object to “never,” there is your alternative.

And as someone who works in the legal field, Roon can pay me for my time. $200/hour. One billable hour minimum.



“No plans at this time” offers hope. Because people object to “never” doesn’t stop the word being the right choice! :slightly_smiling_face:


I would say Roon is more like a bus company, your bus is nice, but you only go one route. Imagine you bought a Tesla, and you got in and it just drove you to the mall. “But all my other cars let me decide where to go and how to get there” you protest. “You don’t understand our data model” replies the car, as the doors lock.

And fwiw, aand remembering that I myself have no interest in folder browsing, I can’t find anywhere in your support pages where you clearly explain to someone used to folder browsing what the roon equivalent is.


I don’t recall any specific (tho its been 4 years since I have had a look at the marketing blurb) reference either way that it’s not supported or never would be. If this is how it’s going to be then put this fact in the what roon does and why it doesn’t or even will support folder options so people don’t come into roon expecting anything more or less.

I don’t want it either just for the record but I wouldn’t be offended if it was an option either.

And to be getting things back on topic I think Danny’s take on closing that thread is valid, as for the others this is as noted their forum and they have that right.

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Would marketing information enter into a discussion about the way Roon doesn’t work?

I have just experienced this myself only a few days ago when the title of a thread was changed - or in reality manipulated - by someone. Surely only in the very best intentions…

After I complained the thread title was converted back to its original form. But this should not happen in the first place unless offensive language is being used or any other serious offence to the rules.

Just pointing out the fact that the marketing blurb - dare I say hype - of Roon does not always quite stick up to reality should not be a valid reason. That is clearly censorship and should only happen in some weirdo countries that don’t need to be named.

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Then why buy a only-mall-going-tesla? If you require UPnP or can’t change your ways about folder browsing, Roon is not for you.

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Oh my, and how the topic quickly switches to merits of a feature Roon will never have.

Anyway, I’m going to try out @James_I’s idea and just ignore the idea of file browser

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I don’t want folder browsing. Never used it. Never needed it. Nor have I ever used or needed UPnP. I did expect and still hope for the ability to organize my music in a way that suits me, rather than be coerced into using someone else’s view. And I still hope for a decent search. And I still hope to be able to just retrieve whole compositions from Qobuz.

Here is a perfect example of where i should be deleting the posts from @Jez and myself. We are super off-topic from ‘censoring’ – would it be censoring if I did?

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To channel George W. Bush, I’m not “the definer,” but I think censoring includes there to be a suppression of ideas or information. This would be more like “editing” but it is probably not worth it in a thread like this. I can see the utility in a discussion about a feature or workaround. Let the boys play.


A former Roon forum member, when I first joined, offered that he had a specific brand of pricey stereo equipment. The manufacturer has a forum, but he found that when he questioned why his equipment failed or performed erratically that his posts were deleted.

Later that manufacturer did his own video post on why it is acceptable to delete posts (that were negative to his brand/sales).

He has the right to do so, but it was being painted with a broad brush and not a forum at all but solely for promotion.

I had a forum quite a few years ago but found that editing was a burdensome experience, and I elected to close it.

I must admit when I see posts here deleted, I wonder what they contained. Yet I have seen quite a few posts that go beyond challenging to overt hostility. (Personal opinion, posts that contain expletives are quite unpleasant…what would my mommy have said?"

I’ve been ‘modded’ once or twice. No problem, I deserved it. But when that happened the moderator told me what he was doing.
I’ve also had three posts just plain deleted over the years. They were pretty much on topic, and certainly weren’t incendiary or directed as a personal assault. Nothing was said via mods, just ‘poof’, they were gone. One poster even asked where the posts went.
That doesn’t really make me mad. Paranoid maybe. No idea what was wrong. Strange.

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I’ve posted this comment before and I’m posting it again.

Anyone who thinks this forum is out of line in editing posts should get on the JShiver forum and post something even faintly critical or questioning of the product.

The response will range from a snotty answer from JimH, being temporarily or permanently banned, or (in the most egregious case) having their post edited to create a more positive comment.

In the last case, since one’s forum name is still associated with the post, that is a form of identity theft.

Yes, this doesn’t address the OP’s concerns. Still, be thankful for what one has.

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If you don’t know, I certainly ain’t going to tell you! :wink: