I don't like the idea of turning on a computer every time I want to listen to music

On my last day, I will get into a box ;-). No, my amp can handle USB Memory and iPhone/Pod/Pad but obviously no USB Audio input :-(.

Agree. My experience with friends, is that once they move to a more full-featured audio streaming approach (LMS/Squeezebox) or Roon, for example, that they find that DLNA/UPnP is unusable.

I have great luck having an amp with a very good DLNA implementation :-).

But does it do gapless playback? Try playing the album The Dark Side of the Moon for example. All DLNA clients i have tried introduduce ugly gaps where the tracks shouls flow seamlessly one to the next.

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Matthias, your current system doesn’t support Roon, you don’t want to replace or add any boxes, and you think your current system is very nice.

So what is this conversation about?


Wha\t exactly are you trying to accomplish with this thread here?


Well, this thread has been split from another one by a moderator ;-).

The initial point was the integration of DSP functions for playback/streaming into roon knowing that many amps already have their own equalizers, room corrections and other sound improving functions.

Finally, I must say that the “rooniverse” with all of its current software and hardware integration approaches is a good idea. I initially started using roon for Mac with the idea of leaving Apple’s iTunes behind because of its very limited file format support. With some additional tools for ripping and file conversion this task is accomplished ;-). Though, I hope they will integrate such functions into roon client.

Then I saw that there are so many other roon projects/components. But in most cases these require special or additional hardware.

  • RAAT compatible amp hardware is not standard, yet. And you would have to replace your current music hardware.
  • DLNA is not supported thus, many available amps cannot be fed by roon on an IP base.
  • For roon streaming to analog amps you obviously need an additional RAAT DAC box.
  • Running roon server on an NAS is a brilliant idea - if you own the right NAS hardware.
  • Even more, a dedicated roon server with Intel NUC is on its way.

roon seems to mainly concentrate on hardware (integration). So, how many people may benefit from the roon idea with their already existing hardware?

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The additional hardware is very affordable, as I posted above.

May I ask why you don’t like the idea of a small, affordable low powered Roon endpoint?

A roon endpoint is somewhere in the middle of the music delivery chain.
To feed such an endpoint you need some roon component. Unfortunately, my NAS cannot run roon server.
If I got it right the roon endpoint feeds the amp. So, there are mainly two options: digital transfer through HDMI or S/PDIF, or analogue transfer with a built-in DAC.
I know there are limitations regarding bandwith, frequency, codecs, and number of channels with these options.
Furthermore, if you have an amp with a very good DAC you may not like to feed it with an analogue signal from an additional external DAC. What about the audio quality of such RAAT DAC boxes when using analogue output?

What about a RAAT->DLNA box ;-)?

Good questions but regarding this, what limitations does RAAT have that DLNA doesn’t have?

A Roon endpoint is anything that can receive a network stream from a Roon Core. Some have inbuilt DACs and some output a digital signal that can feed a stand alone DAC or the internal DACs in digital amps or digital active speakers.

You don’t have to. Just connect the digital output of an endpoint to the digital in of the amp.

The endpoint itself won’t have an analog output unless it has an inbuilt DAC. Choose the SQ you want.

Sonore make a UPnP Bridge app that runs on their SonicOrbiter platform. I haven’t tried it but I understand it sits on a network and enables RAAT to speak to DLNA connected equipment. It uses the Squeezebox protocol.

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It’s not about the RAAT protocol itself. I don’t know any concrete details about it. So, I actually cannot compare it to e.g. DLNA.
It’s much simpler - there’s sooo many DLNA or Airplay compatible hardware and software out there, already. Compared to this roon is just starting to establish a completely different standard. They decided to go this way. The consequences for consumers are abvious.

We shouldn’t forget, it’s all about a good music experience, nothing more, nothing less. And to be honest - though I’m almost some sort of ‘techy’ - it’s getting too much complicated. How should I decide between so many options in reasonable time?

I have to agree with you. Until June 2015 I mainly listened to vinyl, tape and CD. For me it came down to the Roon UI; once I played with it I was hooked. I didn’t have any streaming equipment so I was able to start afresh. I’ve used Raspberry Pi, BeagleBone Black, CuBox-i, microRendu and Aries as Roon network endpoints into a DAC as well as a direct connection by USB, coax and Toslink. I like the mR best, but the Aries has the best PCM output via balanced AES/EBU.

I have to acknowledge this may be true. My old man probably wouldn’t have been able to buy, assemble and setup the affordable HiFiBerry endpoints that I posted earlier in the thread with photos - I had to help him there.

But he said he ain’t go back to anything else now - he’s since sold his complete vinyl setup and LP’s :fearful: and ripped all his CD’s and will be selling all those too.

So for the cheaper Roon endpoints, i understand it can be tricky to get started. But the ease of use after that is as good as it gets I think. If my dad finds it easy to use now, it means its easy lol.

You could also buy a Bluesound Node 2 which is virtually a plug and play Roon endpoint, allowing you to keep and use your own amp.

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There are some extremely high end RAAT DAC boxes. The 23k dCS Rossini and 10k Ayre QX-5 just to mention a couple. There is a wide array of options in this arena and it grows continually. Audio quality isn’t something to be questioned.

Yes, there are many DLNA or Airplay compatible units out there. At one time, the market was firmly in the hands of 78rpm shellac records, and people probably fretted about having to invest in this new-fangled vinyl that turned at a slower speed. Then we went through the same thing with the introduction of CDs, not forgetting the Philips cassette and the Sony Walkman.

There will always be change, and change will usually occur because the newer standard is better in some way. I say usually, because I seem to recall that Betamax was technically better than VHS, but we all know what happened there - better marketing.

It’s really very easy to integrate Roon with a wide range of audio equipment, and it can also be done very cheaply without (to my ears) compromising SQ.


My solution was to buy a refurbished notebook with an Intel i5 processor and 128gb SSD for about $250 (Canadian) to use as the Roon core and Respberry Pis as endpoints. I have the notebook configured to not shut off when the lid is closed, so it runs constantly but inconspicuously. Works like a charm and cost was minimal. I use an external hard drive as the file source, or my Synology NAS

I share the same thoughs, i think roon is a great software, but need too much additional hardware to accomplish the setup.

I understand you dislike the idea of another box in your stereo. I also dislike having too much equipment and cables in my place. But regarding your two quotes above, it does not only solve your issue with non RAAT-hardware, it is also the most flexible and open option to go.

A few years ago, I bought a Marantz AV-Receiver. It was quite good at that time, but after a while they released new models which allowed Spotify Streaming and just after one year they did not release a firmware for my model and I had to accomplish this somehow differently.
Because I did not like this kind of product support, I sold the AV-Receiver again and started buying Sonos products, because it was the only company I knew back then, who act more like a software company in regards to their hardware. If a new feature comes out, it can be used with all of their existing hardware. But even there I could not accomplish everything: Airplay was not supported and also High-Res files could not be played.
Roon solves most of my issues there and even transcode material to ensure it is compatible to the endpoint. I also use Raspberry Pi to deliver the audio to the amp, but because of its small size, it does not bother me at all. It’s so small that I can hide it behind the stereo.
Even if someone decides not to use Roon anymore, you can just put another image on the SD-card and use it with different software like volumio, or as a Squeezebox.
To me, this is the setup I was looking for, for a long time and it is also the most open and flexible audio setup that I ever had.

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I’m not sure how RAAT should solve my problem. Currently, the lack of DLNA support in roon is my problem.

But… to be more precise…
I don’t plan to subscribe for Tidal, Spotify etc. My amp should only manage the core music tasks, thus getting basic input and delivering great sound for multiple audio and video inputs.

Absolutely true, you shouldn’t wait for all the streaming techonologies to be integrated into an amp ;-).
And, for sure, Sonos is not a suitable product for me. I don’t need wireless active speakers, but really good speakers ;-). I don’t like the idea of being rather limited to a single manufacturer.

I only like to have a more… straight foward music system feeding my amp.
The current roon client is a good start to get rid of iTunes. But it still lacks important functions regarding cd ripping, file conversion, and file transfer for different/mobile music hardware. I hope they will integrate these. If so, roon would be a true music managing tool. And I have no problem to use a dedicated Mac or PC to organzie my music. But it shouldn’t be necessary for playing the music.

Archiving is very simple - just link roon client to an NAS - accessible by any other tools you like.
So, once having built the archive all the music is simply there - for anything you like - structured into folders, files, and some meta data.

My Synology NAS easily connects to my DLNA - yes Dee-eL-eN-A :wink: - amp. Airplay no problem either. And with DSaudio client on my iPad it is real fun browsing and playing this archive. Without any additional hardware ;-). Works very well. Try to accomplish things with what you already have, and keep it as simple and as open as possible. Avoid duplicate functions, use what is there already.

As to Spotify, Tidal… canceling subcription would erase/cut access to any subscription based music you listened :-(. Thus, no real archive.
But, what I like is the “Tidal shop”. It allows buying albums of titles you like - in HiRes - permanently. Real archive.
Integrating the Tidal shop into roon client would be great :-).

I need roon for organizing music, not for playing it ;-).

Currently, roon seem to concentrate on all the RAAT hardware. They shouldn’t forget about the central task of organizing music.

A final comment on rather DIY RAAT endpoints like Pi boxes. I simply want to enjoy music. I don’t want to get worried of how or whether certain boxes would really meet my needs to finally have a good listening experience.
Building a suitable and working music system should not end up in getting computers to work - NO FIDDLING!