I just got a Nucleus and I have a legacy equipment not Roon Ready and I am not sure how to get the best audio from them

If I wanted to connect my Nucleus to my Bryston 7B amps and B&W speakers independent of my Marantz preamp, could I do it by adding a Roon Ready DAC with a volume control that didn’t need a preamp even though the amp and speakers are not Roon Ready and still get a superior sound?

I am doing some homework and learning just enough to be dangerous as you can probably tell. Steve Hoff

Yes, you could do that. Whether or not you get a superior sound is another matter, depending on a lot of things.

I use USB to a Topping D70 DAC which goes straight into my power amp, for instance. I use the analog side of the DAC as a preamp.

There is an issue with digitally controlled preamps. Bad code or resets or bugs might cause them to turn on with full volume and ruin your speakers. Many recommend putting a passive preamp in between the DAC and the power amp. See this thread:

1 Like

To the OP:

While there is an orthodox answer (see below), there is no universally correct answer to your question. While I don’t have a Nucleus, I do have a Marantz 8802A pre-pro, so I can relate to your situation.

Let’s start with the basics: you’re getting sound out over HDMI, so that’s a good start. What type of files are you playing with Roon? FLAC? MP3? AAC? Apple Lossless (ALAC)? WAV? AIFF? Something else?

As other replies have indicated, your Marantz should accept up to 192/24 PCM over HDMI. It will take up to 7.1 channels, if you like multichannel music. You can configure this by clicking on the gear icon next to the Nucleus HDMI output on the Audio Settings page. If you’re playing WAV/AIFF/FLAC/ALAC, you’re aiming to get the signal path indicator (next to the skip backwards playback control) to glow purple. This indicates that Roon has a transparent, bit-perfect path to your pre-pro. Glowing green indicates that Roon (or some other software) is modifying the audio before it gets to your pre-pro. Amber/orange, if I remember correctly, is what Roon shows if you’re playing a lossily compressed file, e.g., MP3 or AAC. Ignore the discussion of DSD for now; set Roon to convert it to PCM.

If you’ve gotten the purple signal path indicator on a losslessly compressed or uncompressed track, how does it sound to you? If the answer is good, then you can either declare victory for the time being, or continue to explore, but exploring will entail additional purchases. If you have dropouts, clicking noises, or similar very obvious problems, then more work is needed.

For various technical reasons, HDMI isn’t the audio interface you’d design if video wasn’t an issue. If you wish to continue exploring, the next simplest approach would be purchasing a USB/SPDIF converter, USB & SPDIF cables (I won’t touch the great cable debate here), and use one of the SPDIF inputs on your pre-pro. You may or may not hear a difference, but if you hear a very dramatic difference, then it’s probably related to a pre-pro setting. If it sounds the same, a little better, or a little worse, then you’re probably making a fair comparison.

The orthodox answer is to purchase a streamer with a SPDIF output to use with your pre-pro. DIY solutions start at ~$100, packaged solutions in the $300-400 range, and go up (sometimes way up) from there.

Good luck!

1 Like

The S/PDIF approach is certainly possible, but I doubt there’s any advantage over simply using the HDMI cable, the way a box like this is intended to be used. And there are more things to go wrong. If the OP wants to mess around with DSD, for instance, S/PDIF would be the way to go, but what would he really gain? The internal DAC in the Marantz would just re-convert it into whatever it uses. Those S/PDIF inputs on the back of the Marantz are there mainly to service old DVD players and televisions without HDMI capability.

Thanks for your valued comments. I am playing FLAC hi-res files from Qubuz and Tidal. I am only interested in playing them back in 2-channel on my B&W speakers. When I look on the path from Qobuz it starts purple and ends up as CD quality identified as Airplay which appears to be the glowing green color you describe. This is clearly better than I had previously been able to achieve, but it does not provide the hi-rez output that I had hoped to be receiving.

After more study, it seems like a separate DAC connected by a USB 2.0 or 3.1 (?) to the Roon Nucleus would be a reasonable step if I wanted to get the full benefit from my streaming services, but it raises another question in addition to price. Would connection of the added DAC to my Marantz allow the Qobuz or Tidal hi-rez file to flow through the Marantz to my legacy amps and speakers? Or would the added DAC be best benefited from by connecting it directly to my legacy amps since I have no analog music files or sources in my system?

Always good to hear your ideas and suggestions Bill. I just responded to ddean and saw your response.

As you can see, I am entertaining what I think is an orthodox solution, but a more expensive one than I had originally considered, by adding an external DAC, but not really knowing how the connection of it to my legacy preamp and speakers should be made, whether direct or through the existing preamp. What are your thoughts?

I don’t see the point of an external DAC if you continue to use the Marantz preamp. If you’re going to go that route, connect the DAC’s output directly to your power amps.

On the other hand, you are now using AirPlay to connect the preamp to the Core. But an HDMI cable would give you better resolution. Why don’t you try that first, before you buy a DAC?

There’s more than one way to skin a cat, but in between my music server (similar to your Nucleus) and power amp, I use a single box that combines streamer, DAC, and pre-amp capabilities. I do not have an additional, dedicated pre-amp between the streamer/DAC/pre-amp and the power amp (but could add one if I wished).

The integrated box is a Matrix Element X, which can be used as a network-attached DAC or as a USB-attached DAC (or both). As a USB-attached DAC, it can be connected directly to my music server (a sonicTransporter i9) or to a computer. As a network-attached DAC it works as a Roon-Ready endpoint. I usually control volume (and source selection) with an infrared remote control.

Alternatives to the Matrix Element X (~$3400 new) include less expensive products in the Matrix line, as well as several products by Cambridge Audio (e.g. the Azur 851N for ~$1500 new), Lumin Music, and Exasound.

I’m not claiming you would or would not notice a significant difference in SQ compared to your current set-up. If this approach appeals to you after completing your research, then I’d recommend buying from a vendor with a generous return policy.

My MC streaming DAC gets the signal from Roon over Ethernet. The DAC is connected to a Denon receiver via 7.1 analog connections. For my setup everything connects to the receiver which handles all the switching and drives 13 speaker 2 sub arrangement. Plays both stereo and MC very well. I’m trying to keep my equipment down so I can save for the B&W 802 D4’s

Thank you for your response. It was very interesting and while expensive, it sounds like a product that would work for me, but without knowing if it would improve my SQ justifies your advice to only purchase it from a vendor with a generous return policy. Having been down that road once with Moon-Audio I am now very very careful.

If you want to bypass hdmi and use usb out, you could use a topping d10 dac (about $100) to take usb out from the Nucleus and convert it to coax s/pdif in to your preamp. It will play up to 24/192. It measures well, and using it this way you are simply passing through the usb digital signal to the dac in your preamp (not using the dac in the d10).

The main advantage would be that s/pdif might have less “jitter” than hdmi (basically miniscule noise because of timing/clocking errors/differences). The difference is probably inaudible, though. There might also be other sources of noise getting in to hdmi that would be eliminated via coax.

Another possibility is to use an HDMI streamer like the one reviewed below. This will let you pass all channels of hi-res audio through to the AV preamp, and it’s pretty cheap.

2 Likes

My 2p …

Put a streamer in between Ethernet and SPDIF input of pre pro

Many choices, I use

Posh : Cambridge Audio CXN V2 then coax to preamp

DIY: Raspberry pi \ Riopeee \ Allo DigiOne HAT then coax to preamp

I use both devices , they are hard to tell apart but I have OLD EARS

Both are Roon Ready , the pi is dirt cheap and worth a try , it will be an improvement on AirPlay

Good luck

With a device like the Cambridge Audio CXN V2 added to the system, the OP’s existing preamp may be unnecessary. The CXN V2 can operate in preamp mode.

Simply using an HDMI cable wtill be an improvement on AirPlay; no need for another box, I’d think.

Hi Bill, I have been very busy trying to sharpen my knowledge. It is hard for me to process the language used by those in the forum and understand it. You seem to be a fixture on the forum and I pay close attention to your posts. I want to have a stand alone 2 ch stereo setup separate from my multichannel Home Theatre system I don’t plan to use my Marantz for hi res audio. Just Nucleus to an external DAC preamp then to Bryston 7B amps then to B&W 802D speakers. No analog additions. Just digital.

When I get recommendations it seems that they all seem to duplicate some of the Nucleus attributes and 2 TB SSD hard drive making me feel that I should never have bought the Nucleus in the 1st place, but I did. These recommendations are in the $4k to $7k area. Cash is not a major problem but I just hate to duplicate equipment. Ideally there is something in between that would work well without the total cost ballooning to $6k to $9k.

I also tend to believe you get what you pay for, but understand that those who have great knowledge don’t have to rely on my questionable belief to get just as much for much less.

Hopefully, this will help explain where I am at. Wish there was someone to trust like you who offer your kind help with nothing to personally gain. Anyway thanks for listening again as you have each time I post.

Recommendations for what?

Sounds like you have it all worked out OK. All you need to do is pick a DAC. You can go to the ASR site and look at what’s recommended there. The site isn’t perfect, but it’s pretty good, lots of knowledgeable people there working out the various issues.

Personally, for a DAC, I’d just go with a Topping D90 or D70. Not very expensive, but excellent sound reproduction. They both include preamp stages and remote controls. If you want something flashier, look at the ASR reviews and find something that measures well. But DACs are kind of a known quantity these days, and it’s not hard to make a good one.

More important is to match those speakers to your listening room.

1 Like

Sounds like a great idea! They have a Topping D90 and a D90SE. I have briefly read thru the ASR review and am curious if you have an opinion between the 2. I don’t know enough to make an informed decision even though the reviewer seemed high on the SE.

Now I am really going to sound ignorant, but what exactly is implied in matching speakers to my listening room? Are you talking about software that takes into account room size, number of windows, ceiling height etc?

No, not really. I think the SE is newer and includes support for MQA.

One of the things you can do with Roon is to measure your room’s acoustics, and then add digital signal processing to Roon that will make it sound perfect given your speakers in your room. People do things like adding sound absorbers, curtains, covering tables (highly reflective surfaces), and all sorts of other steps to connect the speakers properly to the room.

I’m no expert here; @andybob has gathered together a number of threads on how to do digital room correction (using a calibrated microphone), but there are lots of physical steps you can take to remove sound reflections and/or absorption. A good starting article on this is How To Mitigate Problematic Room Acoustics. That will give you a basic understanding of the issues involved.

3 Likes

This topic was automatically closed 36 hours after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.