[Investigating] B1605 - Zone visible, no music

[Tigo]

I’m running B1605 on my rock server.
The behaviour that I’m seeing is that:

1. I press play to listen on my lumin U2 Zone.
2. It indicates - connecting to the Qobuz source, - FLAC file etc.
3. No sound comes out, and there’s no progress on the player bar.
4. It stops. Source connection disappears. Nothing plays.
5. I try a radio station. Same behaviour and nothing plays.

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6. I change the zone to my local computer and press play. It works. It plays music both from Qobuz and Radio.
7. I change the zone back to lumin U2 Zone, and I get the same behaviour as 1-5 above.

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To resolve the problem.

I either restart the Roon server. Then, it plays fine from the Lumin U2 Zone, without any issues, both Qobuz and Radio.

OR:
I play music on my local computer and as it’s playing, I transfer the music zone to the U2 Zone, and it works then. The music transfers and it plays fine from there. Radio works fine. Qobuz works fine, local library works fine.

[wklie (Peter Lie)]

Disconnect the DAC from Lumin.

Power cycle the whole network of devices starting from the router, WiFi mesh, access points, network switches, Roon Server, Lumin, NAS, phones, tablets, computer(s), etc.

After Lumin is powered up and shows a progress circle on the front panel, power cycle the DAC, switch to correct input and connect it to Lumin.

[Tigo]

I’ll give that a go tomorrow. In the interim, I’ll expand on the post to say that playing music via Lumin app, Airplay, Qobuz Connect, and Spotify Connect connecting to the Lumin U2 still played music fine. It’s just Roon that’s acting up. Things were working fine till B1600, and I thought it was the Zone dropping issue that was reported by another user. But, now, after a bit more testing with B1605 - I narrowed down the problem & how to resolve it, but it doesn’t make sense to me. I’ll do the power cycle exercise tomorrow and report back.

[Tigo]

Sorry Peter, no luck.

I’ve restarted everything as you’ve suggested, and yes, it worked. But the next day Saturday, and the next day Sunday, and the next day Monday. I have had to resolve the issue with:

I play music on my local computer and as it’s playing, I transfer the music zone to the U2 Zone, and it works then. The music transfers and it plays fine from there. Radio works fine. Qobuz works fine, local library works fine.

I’m not bothering with restarting the Roon server. For me, it’s an issue with the early release builds that came out B1600, and now B1605. I’ll wait to see what the upcoming 2 to 3 builds bring, or just switch it to the production server.

I think it could be that Roon doesn’t like that I’m powering off the U2 and Amp from its’ interface, and then the next day starting them up. I’ve just enabled Auto-turn off from Roon, so that I don’t turn them off myself - just to see if it manages to turn them off and then I start them up, would it then play nice with things or not.

I’m able to play directly to the lumin using Airplay, qobuz connect, spotify connect, and the lumin app, without a problem everyday. It’s just Roon that’s being silly.

[ivan]

Hi, @Tigo, thank you for you post. Could you please tell me if the pattern I described below is correct:

1. You have a Lumin U2 network zone
2. It works after RoonServer reboot
3. However, after you turn Lumin U2 off via its interface and then turn it on, when you try to play anything via this zone using Roon, no sound comes and after some time you get and error message and then the source track disappears from the footer in Roon

If that’s correct, can you please not the timestamp next time it happens and let me know? I will request a diagnostics report from your machine and will pass it to our dev team.

Thanks!

–
Ivan

[Tigo]

Hi Ivan,

I can narrow things down a bit further as I did a couple of tests.

The U2 zone has an MA9500 connected via USB to it.

1. U2 network zone, connected to an MA9500.
2. Yes, it works after a reboot of RoonServer.
3. However, after I turn the Lumin U2 off via Roon interface and turn off the MA9500. Then turn first the MA9500 on, let it settle (gap is necessary so that Roon identifies full capabilities of Lumin zone), then turn on the U2 and try to play anything via this zone using Roon, no sound comes and after a couple of seconds the source track disappears from the footer in Roon. No error message is generated.

Another scenario that I just identified.

1. I’m listening to music at the U2 zone.
2. I turn off the U2 streamer alone. Leave the amp on. (this was a short period under 5 mins to see if it works).
3. Turn the streamer back on, and Roon will play music.

Timestamps: 3rd-Feb. 0755 AEST - 0810, and then 0830-0845 AEST.

Many thanks for your assistance,

[Tigo]

Solved the problem with the following:

In the configuration for the U2 in Roon - I disabled the Enable MQA Core Decoder option within it. Now, everything is working again. I had that option enabled as I was subscribed to Tidal initially for a couple of years before moving to Qobuz, it’s not needed at all now.

Cheers,

[Tigo]

Correction to my earlier comment. After a bit more testing - on / off - (i.e., coming in to use the system). It wasn’t disabling the Enable MQA Core Decoder that resolved the playback issue. It was initiating some control change on the zone that then led Roon to go ahead with transmitting to that zone.

Yesterday evening, I had both the amp & lumin off. I turned on the amp, then turn on lumin, - pressed play to listen to music. No sound came out. I made the change of disabling Enable MQA, and then music started playing.

Today after starting up the amp, then lumin, then pressing play, - no sound came out, and the same issue occured. So, then I enabled the MQA core decoder, and, it started working - playing music.

So, I guess another approach to resolving the issue would be to just make a change to the zone as opposed to transferring music from one zone to another.

[ivan]

Hi, @Tigo, thank you for the details, our partners team is investigating this case and the details you provided are indeed really helpful.

Thanks!

–
Ivan

[Tigo]

Hi @ivan ,

I’ve done a bit more testing with the partners team, and further testing on my own.

Roon Server –> Lumin —> MA9500

Roon has to detect the Amp behind the streamer and has to communicate directly with it and that connection has to be continuous. Placing the Lumin / Amp into Standby and Up again. Roon in theory should remember the zone correctly, and continue with the existing config settings. But it is not doing that, it is attempting to start fresh - in a faulty way, because its mis-identifies - or fails to identify what’s there.

See below correct identification of the capabilities of the streamer - and amp. This is the case after restarting Roon Server. Let’s regard this as a fresh beginning.

I’ve placed the amp in Standby then Lumin. Waited 15 minutes. Started up the Amp, started up Lumin.

Pressed Play to listen to music - and music played, but, when I look at the audio-zone, see below, streamer and amp capabilities were reduced.

Other occasions when it did play after starting up the Amp, then the streamer. Pressing play to listen to the zone, the amp was no-longer identified and only the streamer was visible.

To correct the reduced capabilities of the streamer & amp, - I have to restart Roon Server.

If & when there’s no-music playing, and yet the zone is identified correctly and capabilities correctly, I then resort to playing music on the device and transfering it to the U2 Zone and that would work. Restarting Roon server solves the problem, and making any changes to the zone - also resolved the problem.

Clearly there was a tweak done to the signalling, and zone-details retention done that have caused all this.

hope this helps

[ivan]

Hi, @Tigo! Thank you for your post, I think we finally have a fix for this issue in our pipeline and that it can hopefully go out to EA soon. I will keep you posted.

Thanks!

–

Ivan

[ivan]

Hi, @Tigo, we’ve just released a potential fix for your issue. Could you please perform testing on your end and see if the original issue is still reproducible?

Thanks!

–
Ivan

[Tigo]

Hi @ivan

Thank you for the follow-up. I did the update yesterday and tested things then a few times, and again today. Same outcome, 1 Win and 1 Loss.

Starting point is Correct Audio Zone configuration with both MA9500 & Lumin appearing with full zone capabilities.

Win:

1. Lumin is placed in Standby. Amp is placed in Standby. 15 to 30mins+ later. Amp is turned on from standby. Wait a minute. Lumin is turned ON. Then, press play. Music is playing. This works everytime. Excellent result.

However, upon checking the Audio setup everytime. My amp has disappeared and only the Lumin bridge is visible at reduced capabilities. This is 1 Loss.

2. I restart the Roon Server. This was the old tactic to resolve such an issue, and after restarting the Server. Roon should pick up the complete capabilities of the Lumin bridge & amp. Unfortunately, it doesn’t anymore. It still shows the same screen - Lumin & no Amp, and reduced streamer capabilities.
3. I place Lumin in Standby, then shortly after I place the Amp in Standby. 10-15mins later. I turn on Amp, then Lumin. Press play - music plays as expected. I check the Audio Zone. It still shows reduced capabilities and no amp.
4. I disable the Roon Ready in Lumin App. Wait for a few seconds or a minute. Then Enable Roon Ready in the Lumin App. Roon Server now detects the Zone correctly. Amp is visible and Lumin capabilities are correct.

I don’t know whether you’d consider this a problem or not.

• Previously, the Amp is always recognized & visible. The bridge & zone would have reduced capabilities if I had made the mistake of turning on the bridge before turning on the amp. In that situation, Roon would reduce capabilities of the zone. To resovle the issue, I would either restart Roon Server, or place the lumin standby - leave it off for a bit (whilst the amp is still on), then turn on lumin, and Roon would pickup the zone capabilities correctly.
• Now, that’s no-longer the case, and I need to disable Roon Ready & re-enable Roon Ready for the Roon server to identify the Amp and bridge and capabilities correctly.

May I suggest that we introduce a toggle switch into the configuration of the Audio Zone, that enables Memory Save - configuration save. I don’t think the average user is Changing the Zone Amp everytime that they want to listen to music at a Zone.

Why is the Roon Server not recalling what is there? Or why is it polling the zone, identifying the streamer (bridge) & because it doesn’t know the Amp behind, setting the stream to a default minimum setting. If the bridge is capable for higher settings, the default stream should be to the highest settings of the bridge.

Please let me know if there’s anything further that Roon can do to resolve this, or will I have to disable & re-enable Roon ready on the streamer for the zone to be correctly identified after every instance that the Amp & streamer go into Standby.

Thanks,

[ivan]

Thank you for your reply, @Tigo, I will pass this data to our dev team.

–
Ivan

[Tigo]

Many thanks @ivan , I’ll look forward to your reply. cheers

[Tigo]

Hi @ivan ,

another issue that I noticed - the auto standby feature from Roon to place the zone bridge & amp in standby no-longer works. I have the zone configured so that if I’m not playing music for 30mins, then roon is to place both the lumin and amp in standby (off). Now that doesn’t work anymore. I’ve tried amending the config on / off, different settings. no luck.