Is McGowan Running for Office?

Then, this seems to be your very personal and individual experience. And if you’re not interested in finding out why this is, that’s totally fine.

Though, understanding what’s happening under the hood of these systems and what in fact influences individual listening experiences and preferences beyond analog or digital signals, in biological systems, let alone marketing, is far more interesting than “well, you obviously just have to try it. It’s sooo much better” :wink:

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In the past, I have owned PS Audio equipment. It was good for the price but I always thought the product was rushed to market and there was room for improvement that was therefore never realized in the released version. Having read some of user frustrations with the current version of Maestro makes me think there is a similar situation with this software.

It is worth a try to learn how it sounds once the software is stable, but that doesn’t tell you whether he will be able to support a software product over time. I am a bit skeptical about that because of the size of the task, as reading some of these forums will show regarding Roon’s own continuing lumps and bumps.

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Indeed, they never really were in developing PC software. Although, there’s lots of examples for implementing UPnP/DLNA players, since they’re available for a very long time now. And for whatever they want to add to this I’d assume they simply do not have the expertise. Even if they’d outsource the development it’ll be hard to do all the design and QA and to simply gain the necessary knowledge to really deliver a reasonable product in a (for them) totally new realm, in a cost effective way.

This is totally independent of how they’d attempt to infuse their system with audible magic, BTW :rofl:

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His marketing pitch isn’t only about sound quality. An interesting area they are working on is how one discovers new music (Ella Radio). My use of Roon Radio for this purpose tells me that this feature has room for improvement/innovation (that said, I have discovered a lot of great music via Roon/Qobuz!).

Competition is good for the consumer. At some point, I’ll try the program gratis for 30 days.

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Quote from Maestro’s site:

Conventional server software delivers audio as a continuous, paced trickle — the network and the server are active for the entire song, and your endpoint lives hand-to-mouth on the incoming stream. Direct Handoff delivers in deep, bursty transfers: your renderer fills a substantial buffer, then plays from local memory while the network goes quiet. Long stretches of every song play with nothing happening on the wire at all. The activity happens between the music, not during it.

Just curious, are there any Maestro fans who also like Diretta?

With or without DSP?

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No I haven’t listened to Maestro, however I have done extensive listening tests between Roon versus CD playback and vinyl playback. These listening tests have led me to believe that the sound quality differences between these audio playback methods is so small as to effectively be of no concern. If I want to listen to Roon (streaming) I do and if I want to listen to vinyl I do. And the music always sounds good.
So how, exactly, does Maestro sound “better” than Roon? And how does Maestro compare to CD and vinyl playback? Balls in your court.

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If I may take a guess, it’s probably about tighter bass, fuller mids, clearer highs, better channel separation, wider soundstage, more definition, less fatiguing, less veiled, more engaging, or some combination. It’s purely subjective, you can’t measure it, and it depends on your particular system, so YMMV.

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I am staying away from Maestro for the very reasons you mention. I do have PS audio equipment and it sounds great and functions well. They also give me great customer service. The original post is basically calling him a liar so none of his output can be trusted. Some people rightly have issue with that.

I don’t use DSP

Yes. All of the above. Roon sounds flat and boring - less engaging by comparison and more like a CD player from 1983​:slightly_smiling_face: Now I’m not suggesting that Roon is that bad. Hopefully you get the idea. I certainly wasn’t expecting to hear an improvement when I first tried Maestro and the Windows version that I have been using has had enormous problems over the 300 or so versions since it’s release earlier this year. It seems like Paul is working on this project himself with the help of lots of people like myself that are impressed with the sound quality it produces as I and others correspond with him sending log files when we encounter problems. I was initially drawn to try Maestro after being frustrated with a certain dryness and flatness I was hearing in my system and also because an audiophile friend of mine was telling me that he was hearing the same thing when he compared ripped CDs and Qobuz streams via Roon to the same CD playing on his Electocompaniet CD player. I decided to try Audirvana and found it to be certainly closer to the sound quality I was looking for and my friend also found it closer the sound of his CD player but Maestro for both of us has been a substantial sound quality leap forward again.

You may be missing the central point given all the snarkiness: it is irrational to believe that Maestro sounds different insofar as Roon, Audirvana, and Maestro deliver the same bits to your DAC. There is no mechanism, no reason, no path by which that is possible.

There are rational ways of explaining your observations, however. You might have differing volume levels, for instance, or have DSP enabled here or there. You might just be confused, too.

It is in your best interest to remain skeptical of folks like McGowan who are making dramatic promises. It will save you money and help you avoid regret as you become better informed about what is feasible in terms of engineering.

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The suggestion to just try Maestro is an absolutely fair one of course. And I would be happy to do so. But I opted for Tidal some years ago and so that rather counts me out.

I would love Audio Science Review to do some tests on the claims made about Maestro.

Is it though? What differences in quality can you expect between bit-perfect players sending exact same bits to the exact same hardware chain? Now that pretty much anyone can vibe-code pretty much anything, could ASR or anyone else possibly test every single claim that a particular player sounds better than Roon? Assuming Galileo did drop weights from the leaning tower of Pisa to see how gravity works, should we now try every single building, leaning or not, to see if gravity works the same everywhere? We have better things to do. I still don’t have a flying car.

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I don’t expect any difference personally. And I want local files and radio and everything with Metadata all in one place so I won’t be moving from Roon.

But I do think it’s entirely fair for any manufacturer to ask people to just try their products, especially if it is free to do so. In my case it’s isn’t free to try, so I won’t be bothering.

Audio Science Review have done some excellent investigations into PS audio products in the past, so that’s why I suggest it. It’s a very easy test as well. Two wave forms and a null test. I don’t believe there will be any difference but seeing the graphs is satisfying. I would do that test myself if I had access to Maestro. But I don’t.

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There’s one particular thing many miss in this regard. The technology is already there to deliver excellent audio quality, i.e. accuracy and tweaking to your liking. It’s all there and it’s being used. Technology is rather no topic at all here. No fundamental or subtle “improvements” to be expected.

So, what do manufacturers do in this exact situation…? They put their new devices into new housings and build stories around it. That’s the whole point. How to sell “better” gear even though, it’s already there… and it’s mostly not better. It’s just different.

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Again, I have to disagree. If the manufacturer claims ridiculous things, it would be even more ridiculous to try to verify them. And it’s not free; it takes time. And if someone does do it and doesn’t find any measurable or audible differences, the typical response is to blame it on the system, or on the ears, or on the method, or even question the integrity of the tester.

The burden of proof requires Paul to publish his measurements before anyone gives it a second thought. You have to prove yourself right, not ask the whole world to prove you wrong.

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It’s “fair” in a sense that sure they can do it, ,but if a manufacturer of those little pyramids you put your razor blades under so they stray sharp (which are at least as plausible, if not more so, than anything claimed here about Maestro) should one go and try it, or is it enough to trust some rather settled science?

Anyone can claim anything but it’s not the responsibility of the general public to keep proving that 2+2=4, it’s up to the manufacturer to prove that their gizmos can make it 5.

Besides, just because he runs the business well (in a sense that unlike, ahem, some manufacturers with long-going threads here you actually get the merchandise you’ve paid for) it does not mean anything about objective quality of the gear. Otherwise one would have to believe that McD (a far more successful business) deserves Michelin stars…

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Hmm..I think it’s standard fair for manufacturers to make fancy claims about their product. They can only be stopped from making such claims if the claims are proved false. Otherwise they will carry on making them. Far better for someone to prove there is no difference and put a stop to any false claims.

Paul’s “claims” are completely nontechnical. So, he legally can claim anything, as long as it is like that. There’s nothing to prove. And if customers are pleased it’s not his problem.

That’s the basics of storytelling. Nothing else.

I personally don’t like storytellers in this field since their stories are usually old, repeating, not genuinely true, i.e. suggesting something that is basically untrue but in its words mostly legal.

You may judge such marketing as dishonest or untrustworthy since it’s done on purpose.

Such companies turned away from marketing technical gear for many years. They sell “experiences”. And who can argue against such…?

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