It must be possible to play from folder

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42

Thanks to all those who have suggested tagging/coping strategies. I’m going to investigate them all.
Although having looked a bit, I’m very reluctant to go down any tagging route because there still seems to be absolutely no sensible way of proceeding for classical music / eclectic collections.

My foobar ‘swan’ search has to be the yardsick for me. And something that I don’t see will be possible in roon, even with a lot of work on my part. If there are any developers reading this I’ll happily detail all the thought process that go into searching a classical collection (for free) - Just this simple search gives me so much information - including the file I eventually found which I had no idea I had - Menuhin’s version deep in my ‘Violin’ folder, and a fabulous brass band version in the Taneyev folder.- N.B. Just to do enough tagging to get these to show up, just for a once in a lifetime play, is unreasonable.

But, Roon’s search capabilities are not what I’m criticizing here!

My one request is really simple. I find a file (somehow, anyhow) - and I right click (or drag it or something) and it offers me ‘play in roon’.
I don’t see how this is philosophically bad or good - it’s just basic functionality. I’m not a bad person for needing this. Quite frankly the moralising tone and ideological statements are embarrassing. This is a tool for playing music.

BTW don’t you guys have LPs? How do you categorise them then?

43

I get over 250 hits with “swan” with roon. It is only limited to that because in most categories (such as artist, track title, composer etc.) roon limits the search results to 50. So you will get the eclectic mix of search results you are looking for provided everything is tagged. You should be able to find a way of auto-tagging from your folder structure, even using foobar apparently, so in principle you should be able to comfortably exceed your current experience in foobar. But only you can be the judge of that.

44

Yes, about 600. I simply add them to the Roon library if they exist in streaming services or I have digital files as well. Then I tag them as “Vinyl” in Roon.

If an album is not available in streaming or in my local digital files, I use a single FLAC file containing a computer generated voice saying “get the vinyl”. I tag the file with artist and album names. Then I copy it to Roon’s watched folder, into a special subfolder named “vinyl placeholder”, which contains a regular artist/album folder structure for each such vinyl-only album. Roon happily finds this and, though it can’t auto-identify it because the track number is wrong, it is easy to identify it manually as long as the Roon database knows the album by artist and title. Then it adds the Roon metadata as well and all is good. I manually tag it “Vinyl” and “No Roon”

In addition I have them all in Discogs

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45

Roon is a multi-room player with DSP capabilities for both local files and streaming. There is much more to it than search. I pay for it, yet only use search to get to a specific artist or album. I don’t find that ridiculous.

46

I have around 200k tracks, 60% classical. Sorry to say it but I have little trouble getting where I want

That said could you give us say 3 scenarios of how you go to look for a specific track and perhaps we can suggest a series of workarounds

Just an example , I want to play Beethoven piano sonata 26 op.106 by Brendel. Since I know the Artist I want I go

Artist . Filter Brendel, select picture of Alf then go Discography

Filter = Beethoven , I get 3 sets, select analogue then filter = 106

Voila

Sounds long winded but it’s quick

Roon has plenty ways to skin a cat , :joy_cat: ask and we will suggest , really folders are so YESTERDAY :smiling_imp:

1 Like
47

I’ve never tried this, but…

Approaching this from the other direction…

Screenshot 2022-12-16 at 16.50.33
Screenshot 2022-12-16 at 16.50.33804×796 136 KB

48

This post is not to debate the merits for or against folder based music access. It is to speculate on why a service like roon might not want to include it, and why, over the long term, it might not be in most customer’s best interest to rely on it.

First, we need to understand that virtually all music access systems are based on databases.

This means that there are three ways to get at music:

DATABASE WAYS

  1. Using structured and deterministic data including titles, artist names, track lengths, tags, etc.

  2. Free text searching - in other words, searching all of the text associated with a track/file.

NON-DATABASE WAY
3. Anything that isn’t logically (as opposed to personally) structured, or unavailable to the database’s query/search engine.
This includes folder hierarchies.

The advantage of a Non-database approach, like folder browsing is that you can do things in a way that makes perfect sense to you, though it might not be useable for anyone else.
The disadvantage of a non-structured approach is that while some things may seem to work better, you lose the consistency of logic that a database system can provide/impose. As an example, you might find more instances of “swan,” but not even know that other queries you make don’t work as well, or not be able to make other types of queries at all.

A huge advantage of the structured approach, is that it forces us/teaches us to think of our collections in logically connective ways. This can lead to unexpected discoveries that are less likely than when we use highly personalized and deterministic/fixed methods like folder hierarchies.

For roon, using a structured approach means that they can add and enhance features over time that apply to high percentages of their customer base. They are a highly differentiated product, and this is a mechanism for them to continue to be over time.

A final thought. As a 60% classical listener, the database approach is so much better for my specific use. If I’m in the mood for a certain form (like piano sonatas), but don’t have one in mind, I can look across all of them. If I want to see all the works by a given composer on a given label, it’s just as easy. This combination wouldn’t be possible with non-data based approaches such as folder hierarchies.

Oops, I just betrayed my bias after all!

One way or the other, year-end cheers to finding music that moves you!

2 Likes
49

I have a normal DB with correctly tagged albums, and Roon handle them perfectly.

But, I also have many folders, that are not strictly “ordinary” music, they could be clips of live concerts, interviews, even over 1000 clips recorded from radio, that cannot be tagged as normal albums, tag them is impossibile.

I don’t want Roon to include them in the DB, I don’t want to mess up things, and I know that Roon is born to handle albums in the ordinary way (no folder browse).

But,

If you add to Roon a “Browse by folder” button, which don’t import anything in the DB, doesn’t mess up things, just make Roon to act like an ordinary player, many people here will be happy.

You too often things that people needs to index the stuff included in their folders, and this is your mistake, of course, you say that it’s impossibile and Roon is not born for to do that.

But, if you leave us to browse by folder, using Roon in a sort of “private mode” (to make it simple), that don’t include anything in the DB, that don’t record any history, you will make people like me more happy.

2 Likes
50

Roon can handle these recordings, too. I have separate watch folders, e.g., ROIO, DVD rips etc., and within these, each recording has its folder, with minimal metadata. It’s also straightforward tagging these since I can focus on the folder.

Or you could use another profile for such recordings.

1 Like
51

I haven’t read the whole thread, so maybe my answer has come up in one of the posts, or maybe it is irrelevant. Excuse me for that. But nonetheless…

I saw a screenshot of the structure of your music files. I assume your watched folder is the root of this structure. Can’t you break this down and create a watched folder for every single subfolder?
The contents of your Roon libary will be the same, but you will now have several storage locations instead of one.
After you have done this, you can focus on specific locations, which will make it easier for you to find the stuff you’re looking for, without changing the contents of your Roon library.

2 Likes
53

That seems like a very good idea. I wonder if roon is happy with loads of locations?
I’ll give it a go. Thanks!

54

To add to that idea, if you use Focus from the album page to isolate a specific directory and then create a Bookmark from that, then they will auto-update themselves any time you add new music.

Roon probably has some limit on the number of storage locations (a power of 2?) but I doubt you’ll be testing that.

55

Roon may be happy with loads of locations, but I wouldn’t. These are all good suggestions, but they are, at the end of the day, just workarounds for a very simple feature.

56

Just rereading the thread.

How are your Composers named

Roon supports
Beethoven
Ludwig van Beethoven

But not
Beethoven, Ludwig van
Beethoven, Ludwig van (birthyear, deathyear)

You folder structure hints you may have dates in Composer name. Roon will struggle

57

Just rereading the thread. @james_boyd

How are your Composers named

Roon supports

Beethoven
Ludwig van Beethoven

But not
Beethoven, Ludwig van
Beethoven, Ludwig van (birthyear, deathyear

58

It works. I have more than 100 watched folders, spread over various NAS.
I don’t need them today anymore. They are simply there because my folder structure dates back to 2005.
The longer I used Roon (since 2015) the less I needed and used folder browsing. Today I use 0% folder browsing.

2 Likes
59

Same thing here. Set up my current folder system back in the early 2010’s. And when ripping music I keep the same system.

music folder → artist → album name → tracks

But I don’t need folder view options. I’ll just let Roon or Audirvana Studio handle the searching.

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60

Roon is a multidimensional Swiss knife to communicate with your local music as well as your streaming subscriptions and you can scan through all of that with the filters of your choice. It is simply fantastic and getting better and better year after year. Looks like I am a fan.

1 Like
61

Yeah, even though they output it differently both Roon and Audirvana Studio have excellent Qobuz and Tidal integration next to local files.

I love the whole seem less integration, and how local and streamed tracks are mixed without issues.

62

Ah thanks for that. I didn’t realise. And I can’t think of a way round this - it’s non negotiable. For example Bach, JS - Bach, CPE - Bach JC. Look’s like I need to dump this and get out of here.