About the first thing, I am not speaking about not crashing. I am speaking about the Roon features that I guarantee will never be in any streamer app, like editing metadata including detailed credits with hyperlinks, personal tags, etc. That’s fine, the streamer apps are free and do the job for many people who just want to find an album and click Play. But not for me, and that’s why I use Roon.
To my knowledge, Roon never promised sound benefits (if we ignore DSP), and as we are dealing with digital data on TCP networks, there is no reason to expect any. I have seen people claim that using Naim’s built-in UPnP sounds better, but as far as I could find out and according to my own tests, these people failed to account for small volume difference. It seemed to me that there is a tiny bit more gain when using the Naim app. If I try to get the volume the same (as far as possible), I hear zero difference.
How do you know? We’re effectively at the start of a new technology. It’s like saying ‘I guarantee TVs will never be more than 20 inches across’ in 1959.
The fact that there are no proper alternatives (native apps aside), show what a niche market it is. Some serious competition in the space would probably be a good thing.
Because it’s a lot of costly development work. Because there is a reason Roon requires a local database server. Wake me up when the streamer apps have any of this.
The audio companies seem to be waking up to the issue of software quality now but the history of boutique audio software is currently far from glorious. Some of the offerings have been genuinely shocking (Chord, I’m looking at you ).
I am basing my opinion on what I have been seeing until now in their apps, which is not much.
The last numbers I find for Linn (on insider.co.uk), from Dec 2020, is an annual turnover of £18.6m (with £3.6m invested in research and development across all their products) and a return to slim profits of £872,000, after losses during 2019.
So no, I am not seeing much room for software development there, at least not as a free add-on to the hardware. Naim has twice the turnover and have added precisely zero features in the app during the past two years that I have known their app. (And every minor bugfix was celebrated)
You seem very convinced that they do have the capability. What is your evidence?
Apart from this, one cool thing about Roon is its independence from individual manufacturers, and everything works together as long as it’s Roon Ready. I am not holding my breath until Naim and Linn work together
If the streamer apps fulfill your needs, that’s great and you can save the money for Roon.
The pandemic was very good to HiFi companies so I’m not sure what citing profit numbers from two years ago is worth.
As far as ‘everything works together as long as it’s Roon Ready,’ I guess you missed the kerfuffle with Linn DSMs a couple of weeks ago.
Linn in particular is worth keeping an eye on because like Apple they’re obsessed with the end-to-end experience. They’ve gone all-in on streaming in the last few years, and they’ve just launched what many consider to be the best streamer ever made. Their in-house app is basic at the moment but there’s no reason to believe it won’t improve in the next few years.
You are free to provide more current numbers. The small profit Linn made in 2020 was precisely during the first year of the pandemic. They made a loss in the year preceding the pandemic. In any case, I think we can rely on Linn’s sales not suddenly having increased by a factor of ten.
As for the recent Linn issue, bugs happen for Roon as well. However, if you are using Naim’s multiroom feature, for instance, you are 100% tied to having only Naim players. And this is not a bug but by design, and will not change. I assume it’s the same for Linn.
If Linn improves their streaming and app over the next years, good for them. I don’t think you are right and still haven’t seen any evidence of their capability except that your are convinced, but I may be wrong and we will see. If I see pigs flying, I will check if Linn and Naim devices can interact. By the time I will long have recouped the cost of my Roon lifetime license, in any case.
This is for me one of the best threads ever on this forum or at least for this year.
When reading replies it makes me LOL.
Quite a few forum members are dealing with their “audiophile” hobby like if they are working in the accounting department - when do I reach “break even” if going for life subscription, pretending to know all details on how Roon is running their business, etc. and consequently preaching their own truth.
I am looking forward on commenting to the first depreciation schedule on privately owned audio gear
If you are not willing to pay for what Roon is asking for (determine yourself if value equals the money asked for) you can always go somewhere else isn’t it?
Just switch on your gear, play and enjoy some music ……
Then we can argue over double-declining balance versus straight line depreciation methods. And if the objectivists and subjectivists battle over depreciation methods like they do over cables, we can have more neverending threads.
They’re absolutely clear about that on the Ts&Cs, and it’s not an unreasonable position. As a consumer, I’d also like it to be more generous than it is, but it’s not as clearly stated. It’s not "bad luck, more that you seem to expect good luck . My only surprise is that you feel hard done to.
Sad to see people feel offended, now that the Roon guys have given due notice that the prices will increase. You are, right now, in the position to tailor your own Roon future.
Yes, the net cost for us that don’t get payed in dollars are “eyebrow raising” but we do have the option of going lifetime, relieving us of any further worries about future price.
@CV8R I bought something from Amazon 2 weeks ago, today it’s 30% cheaper… yes, annoying! But I clicked “buy” (eg, committed) at the old price. Sorry you feel had, but it happens.
I’ve been a Roon’er since 2019 and saying goodbye 2/27/23 (end of annual subscription). Steady price increase for a consistently buggy product. Audivana 3.5 has been far more dependable, and plus it just sounds better. Just not worth my time anymore, so will be repurposing my ROCK.
I appreciate where you’re coming from. I have the opposite experience though. I just ‘left’ Audirvana 3.5 (after they quit supporting it when they solely focused on a new product, leaving 3.5 days in its current buggy state). Audirvana 3.5 would act up as soon as I sat down for a listening session…restart computer, check firewall settings…then when it did start streaming music it would skip over some songs in the album queue. Too many bugs for my taste.
Roon has been solid for me. Plus it’s still supported. No bait and switch from Roon regarding the product. I haven’t noticed a difference in sound quality between Roon and Audirvana. But Roon is more user friendly regarding volume controls and other filters.
It is so interesting, how so many people have different experiences. A3.5 has been running perfectly, 99.8 percent of the time. On the other hand, Roon would be running perfectly for a good run, but then would do or not do various things that would require a complete reset. I am giving LMS, Volumio, and Moodle a try, and see how it goes from there. I personally, don’t see Roon as we know it, lasting another 10 years. The high subscription price and the suspect lifetime subscription have my decision to leave Roon, sitting quite well with me. Plus, ARC is one buggy and useless rollout as well. Just my opinion though, and we all know opinions. The key is, are we having fun and enjoying the music? I for one am, and will continue to be. I forgot to mention that physical media is my primary source of musical enjoyment, so media servers and related, such as Roon/Audivana/LMS/Moodle and such are all just geeky fun. Something I don’t take too seriously. I enjoy conversations such as this far more.
IMHO, I think Roon will be around for as long as Roon wants to be around. This price increase is really not all that painful and after 7 years of no increases, it’s not all that surprising. Personally, I think it’s damn hard to create a robust software platform that is primarily targeted at non-computer geek customers and support and evolve it as well as they have.
Sure, some people have had issues with it because it depends so heavily on each user’s home network, internet service and wide range of hardware. I’m still blown away by what it does compared to what was possible just 8 years ago.
Truth is, technology has had a huge impact on how, when and where we listen to music. I haven’t seen any platform that does it better than Roon although the competition is certainly heating up. But that’s a good thing.
Can’t wait to see where Roon goes from here.
).
