Let's talk alternatives to Sonos (compatible with Roon and with Android outside of Roon - please do NOT sell me Sonos, that is not the questions, thanks)

Sorry for breaking in here, but Blusound has its share of problems when used with Roon. I bought a Pulse Flex 2i a month ago and it tends to drop connection with Roon from time to time. I recommend that you read this thread before you buy:

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/the-roon-ready-promise-the-case-of-the-bluesound-2i/78666/87

Hi Londoner…

I have a blue sound ecosystem in my house and upgraded to it from Sonos.

Sonos is a bit more user friendly in terms of setup but both are quite plug and play.

The 1st and 2nd gen blue sound devices are all RoonReady with the exception that the “2i” generation has had some issues with connectivity with Roon over WiFi/hardwire, that’s why it is not Roon ready yet… this will likely be addressed on Bluesounds timeline, they are good, but slow with Roon related updates. Many people have zero issues.

My system includes: two bluesound nodes 2, one bluesound node 2i, one pulse flex 2, and one powernode 2.

My only issues are: 1) my node 2i does not like being connected by hardwire (this may be an issue with the cat5 itself), but is perfectly fine over WiFi. 2) Every once in a while an endpoint will be missing in Roon… solved by reboot of the device and closing reopening Roon.

Otherwise it all works perfectly.

BluOS is very convenient and “snappy” in terms of controlling the music in the home… it lacks the beauty of Roon. It connects to a multitude of music services… far more than Roon. It also communicates with Alexa/Apple HomeKit (that was the purpose of the “2i” update).

In everyday use I find myself quickly opening the BluOS app when I know exactly what I want to play… but to sit down and embrace music and perhaps discover or wander thru my collection it is Roon.

I also use Roon exclusively when I have guests over.

Hope this helps… I wouldn’t be too afraid of Blusound it is a very high quality, economical solution for Roon with a strong ex-Roon ecosystem of its own.

The only caveat is how well it plays in Roon with your network… you will know within your return period.

For this to happen Bluesound should accept that this issue is at least to some extent their responsibility. When reading customer’s discussions with Bluesound support about this issue they keep repeating that this is a Roon-issue and entirely network related.

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@Adam_B, thank you for your reply. I suspect I will wait when/if the 2i devices become Roon-certified, however. I have already had endless issues with Sonos and I don’t want to repeat that with Bluesound, also in light of @ChristianK’s comment.

May I ask how you find the Bluesound app? Do you use the Android app or iOS? How does it compare to Sonos? Does it work reasonably well?

One thing I find annoying about the Sonos app is that it doesn’t let you search by both song and artist, so finding a specific version of a track may be tricky (#1stworldproblems)

Thanks - very very useful.

One thing I didn’t quite understand from that discussion about the Bluesound issues is if those issues appear only with Roon, or also when using Bluesound 2i with its own app, outside of Roon. Do you happen to know?

It’s quite funny (or sad depending on your perspective) that 5+ years after Logitech stopped making and selling Squeezeboxes that they’re still the best answer to this.

In all seriousness, the hardware is still readily available second hand (it’s pretty bulletproof and cheap), it’s still got massive community support (it was always more important than manufacturer support), and it still does stuff that products 100x the price can’t do.

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Yeah… I know,… but they do have a history of being somewhat defensive on the front lines wrt Roon, but in the meanwhile they are working on it quietly in the background.

And do we know that it isn’t a Roon issue?

I can only speak for myself, but my 2i generation node was not happy on wire inside or outside the ecosystem. But rock stable on WiFi.

I believe others found 2i more stable on wire… so I may be entirely unique (and this is a new house, with some questionable wiring decisions during construction so I don’t rule out the cable itself)

All of my normal “2” gen stuff is stable in all scenarios (save for an occasional power cycle when my network itself has issues… unplug, plug, wait 1 min, fixed)

If you can find used gen2 (non-i) bluesound I would highly recommend. Apparently they only updated the WiFi/network hardware (surprise surprise the issues!), otherwise gen2 is entirely state of the art if you don’t care about Alexa.

Regarding BluOS. I was a big critic but they have made huge strides in stability and snappy ness with the app. I believe iOS vs Android are identical (95% of my use is on iOS, but I don’t notice a difference).

The phone (iOS) app is pretty plain, it does what it needs to do. The tablet (iOS) app is better… benefits from the added screen space. My only complaints are exactly the features that I choose Roon for: 1) search is not integrated… you need to search your library, or tidal, or qobuz… there is no general search that will turn up hits in both, 2) presentation is not as slick as roon, 3) discovery of new music is not easy… not a cross linked database like in Roon, 4) metadata is basic… you can find an album review for example, but it isn’t easy.

I haven’t used Sonos more than a couple of times in years, but the functionality of the Bluesound app is very similar… click on “house” and you’ll see all your speakers, grouping is straightforward and easy… sending music from one speaker to the other is very easy… on the other side of the screen you select your sources/services.

One nice integration feature is that any time I add an album to my Roon library (in Roon), it will then show up in BluOS as a favorite, which is nice.

TLDR: Bluesound app is “fine”, works perfectly well but I save my “glowing praise” for Roon.

I have tried internet radio (TuneIn) and Tidal and both works fine. It seems to be when Raat comes into play since Tidal in Roon also has issues in my setup.

If I were to buy today, I would give B&W Formation a try.

No, I guess we can’t say for sure, but I have tried many other different endpoints, wired and wireless, and none of them have had these issues. I DO know though that it’s not network related in my setup :grinning:

Thanks, that sounds very promising. I knew of the B&W Formation duo, which are too expensive, but the Formation flex https://www.bowerswilkins.com/en-gb/formation/flex, while more expensive than Sonos, seem promising. Do you have any direct or indirect experience with them?

The Formation soundbar seems to be Roon ready, but the Formation flex isn’t listed among the Roon ready devices https://roonlabs.com/partners/bowers.html
However, the B&W website says it works with Room

This guy B&W Flex Formation Out of Sync with Bluesound Flex and Unverified By Roon had issues using a Formation Flex and a Bluesound Flex together, but maybe because they are made by two different manufacturers?

I also wonder how “nicely” or not the Formation Flex play with Android; most of the B&W range seems to be meant for Apple devices, so I wouldn’t want to buy something for which Android compatibility was only an afterthought. I am talking about using the B&W with their own Android app; for me this needs to be an option - I don’t want something that works only with Roon.

Actually, both these reviews



claim that the B&W app does very little on its own, and to get the most out of the speakers you really need Roon.
Basically the B&W app is very limited and not comparable to those of Sonos or Bluesound.

Given how much these devices cost, I guess I have the right to be picky. I am not going to buy any B&W devices until and unless they sort out their app.

According to the same website, that should happen some time this year - let’s see https://www.whathifi.com/news/bowers-and-wilkins-to-launch-enhanced-home-app-for-formation-range-in-2020

Yeah it’s a bit of a bummer… but I do remember that TonyW was blaming Roon and vice versa right up until the RoonReady BluOS update dropped, so there is a history of finger pointing and resolution between the parties…

I’m hopeful that they are working on it. It would make no sense that Bluesound has RoonReady certification across only part of its lineup given their positioning as affordable HiRes audiophilia… and Roons strong position among key opinion leaders in that sphere (computer audiophile, darko, etc)

I start the music with the Roon app and then open the Bluesound app.
That way Bluesound recognises I’m playing Roon and I can change volume with the hardware buttons of my Android phone or tablet and I can pauze or change tracks easilly from the notification drawer.

As you’ve already noticed the Formation app currently has very simplified functionality so definitely something big to consider. However, I can confirm that the Flex (and/or the Wedge) fulfill numbers 1, 3, 5 and 7 of your wish list criteria. They also fulfill some of your other criteria but not completely.

I have two Flex as well as two Wedge and I’ve been very happy with them with Roon/Airplay 2 usage (have not used them with any other playback method). They have also worked well with my Naim QB2 devices through both Roon/Airplay 2 playback so I’ve not experienced issues with the mixed manufacturers.

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Thanks so much for all the details!
I understand the Raspberry Pi3 comes with wifi so a separate wifi module isn’t necessary.

I am a bit confused about the software, though. Ropiee can be used for Roon. But what if I want to use multiroom outside of Roon? Max2play can be used, but that requires an annual licence; is it any good? Does it come with an Android ap?

If using Ropieee then multiroom is via Roon or Airplay or UPnP server possibly. Max2play is only multiroom using Airplay or Logitech Media Server which is what I used before Roon so you can control it from pc or any Squeezebox Android remote app. It’s old now but it’s multiroomn is like Roon but without the nice modern features. You have a library to manage etc much like you would with upnp or Roon so why bother. If you want multiroom via Roon and outside of Roon you hard pressed to find anything that’s not ChromeCast, Airplay or BlueOS or expensive stuff like the Naim muso2 and qb2, b&w new stuff, or kef ls50w and LSX range. Most of which have been mentioned already.

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Could I ask you to elaborate? What are the nice modern features it doesn’t have, and are these features found in the apps of Sonos Bluesound etc? For example, I find the Sonos app quite poor (its search functionality is terrible compared to Roon).

To clarify, what I mean is that I would like a plan B if, for whatever reason, I won’t be using Roon anymore (it goes out of business, it increases prices too much, etc.)

It’s old in its code, look and how it feels to use. You need to use 3rd party apps such as orange squeeze to control it. Streaming services are separate and not integrated although you can get a global search with Orange Squeeze.

If you not concerned about hires which I guess your not due to having Sonos then look at an Airplay client such as those from Denon Heos range. No idea what their own software is like though. Or go for Bluesound and see how you get s long with its wireless. Others have had issues with the new range.

None of the other alts have the same features as Roon nor are the as slick. Bluesounds app is good but some services are a little lacking.