Lumin T2 + Roon Setup - Part 2

Audio Gear Talk Lumin
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Greetings All,

I’m new here and excited about my new Lumin T2, which I intend to use exclusively with Roon and Tidal (or any better hi-def streaming source that becomes available over time). I’m writing today because I have spent time reading the Roon/T2 set up guidance in other posts, and still left wondering whether I have it configured correctly as not all variables were addressed in those other posts. In addition, I’m seeing that what Roon is describing in the system path and what is being shown on the T2 display are not matching up, as if the signal is for some reason downsampling when getting to the T2. Although I’m a relative novice when it comes to all this, will do my best to explain and have also included some pictures. Considering my setup may likely become popular with others who are looking to use Tidal, Roon, and a T2 similarly, I’m hoping that this new thread will be supplemental to new users who are hoping to set up and configure things correctly. So here goes:

My hardware set up: Tidal > iMac Roon Core > Cat6 Ethernet (and Eero Meshnet) > T2 > Balanced Transparent Super Interconnects > Simaudio Moon 340i > Transparent Super Speaker Cables > Wilson Sabrina Speakers.

Lumin T2 Settings on App: Volume Control - Off; Leedh Processing Volume - Off; Max Volume - 100; Analog Audio Output - Normal; De-emphasis for 44.1kHz CD files - off; Active Audio Output - Analog; MQA Mode - Off.

I am using $1400 balanced interconnect cables but have the ability to use unbalanced to take advantage of Leedh - is this worth it? Why would one want to do that?

I set MQA mode to off as per recommendation in another post - is this correct?

Any other setting here I should be thinking about changing considering my equipment and set up?

Roon Setup for T2: MQA Capabilities - Renderer Only; Volume Limit - Fixed; Resync Delay - 0ms; Max PCM - Up to 384kHz; Max Bits per Sample (PCM) - 32; Max DSD - Up to 512; Enable MQA Core Decoder - Yes; Multichannel Mixing - Downmix as needed.

On these settings, I believe I followed the advice from the other posts, but it did not address all of the above details. For example, Multichannel mixing - should it be set to downmix or should it be set to Channel Mapping Only? Also, if the Lumin is not going to be doing the MQA decoding, should it be enabled here when it’s not in the Lumin App, or should this be off? And how does this relate to the MQA capabilities section above, where we are told in another thread that Renderer sounds better than Decoder and Renderer. Should this be set to no MQA capability if Roon is doing all the work?

Roon DSP Set up: Sample Rate Conversion - I chose DSD but what are the other settings?? Compatible Only? Max PCM? Max PCM Power of 2? Why would it be either PCM or DSD? Which is better?; DSD Sample Rate - 512; Sample Rate Conversion - Smooth, Linear Phase (what is this, what are the other settings, which is best and why?); DSP Processing Sigma Delta - 7th Order Clans (what is this? What are the other settings, which is best and why?); SDM Gain - 0; Enable Native DSD processing - Yes; DSD to PCM Filter - 30 KHz Low pass (what is this?); DSD to PCM Gain - +6db.

Are these settings correctly configured in light of everything else? Is there a better way to set things up to take advantage of the T2, Roon, and my equipment?

I don’t have any other settings or filters on in Roon, such as Headroom Management, Parametric EQ, or anything else. Should I be using these things for an optimal setup?

Are there any additional aftermarket things I should be considering? HQ Player? Plus, are there any configuration guidlines or presets for the Parametric EQ - seems a little daunting to attempt to configure this without some presets or guidance?

Apart from this, I took a bunch of screenshots of the music path in Roon versus what is being shown on the T2. In almost all cases, the T2 is showing a different and lesser bit rate kHz than the Roon path from the native file. Why is that?

Also, when I see the purple lossless light across all devices, it seems to sound better than if one of the elements is being “enhanced” - why is that?

Appreciate your thoughts on these questions and will happily follow advice and provide feedback as I get my system optimally configured.

Thanks in advance for considering and sharing your thoughts,

MP

IMG_0748 IMG_0554 IMG_0553 IMG_0552 IMG_0551 IMG_0550 IMG_0549 IMG_0547 IMG_0546 IMG_0535 IMG_0534 IMG_0749

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Clearer pics…each path shot has an accompanying lumin shot…

IMG_0749 IMG_0748 IMG_0673 IMG_0665 IMG_0554 IMG_0553 IMG_0552 IMG_0551 IMG_0550 IMG_0549 IMG_0547 IMG_0546 IMG_0535 IMG_0534

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Hi Matt, I have a T2 and do not employ any Roon or Lumin based DSP (except MQA decoding of course), including Leedh. I have found this to give the best SQ. Here are the settings that I have in Roon and the display on my T2 faithfully displays what Roon is sending to it.

1152×1462

1154×1462

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It’s not detailed that I can see but with any LUMIN it seems you need to get many hours of use before it sounds it’s best. I’ve only got the D2 but I don’t apply anything to it and the more it’s used the better it sounds.

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Thanks - can you please also share your settings on the Lumin T2 App? Specifically for:

De-emphasis for 44.1kHz CD Files (relevant with Tidal??)
Active Audio Output
MQA Mode
Analog Audio re-Sampling

Thanks,
MP

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Note, I’m feeding my integrated amp by XLR.

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Thanks - me too with the XLR. Finally, with respect to the Roon DSP settings, that is all set to off?

So Sample Rate Conversion is Off, Headroom Management is Off, and all Filters are Off
?

Which also means Parallelize Sigma-Delta Modulator AND Enable Native DSD Processing is off too?

Thanks,
MP

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Please use balanced interconnect. If it sounds too loud or clips with Simaudio Moon 340i, please set Lumin Max Volume to 88 after enabling Volume Control and Leedh Processing Volume.

Correct.

Wrong. You must keep it as MQA Analog output mode.

Lumin needs the above setting to be doing MQA Rendering as well.

Please keep it Renderer Only.

Downmix.

Basically either turn it off, or upsample to DSD512, and see which sounds better to you. This is preference dependent, as are the rest of sample rate conversion settings you asked.

Not currently supported by Lumin.

Because you (incorrectly) turned MQA off.

You’re listening to MQA or upsampling, and you happen to like the sound of that.

This needs to be enabled.

For your setup, keep it enabled. (For other people using non-Lumin DAC and have to convert high rate DSD or multichannel DSD to PCM, it must be disabled).

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Yup, all off in Roon.

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Big thank you to Peter from Lumin, who has provided very helpful clarifying responses so far.

That said, there are some other questions that I had that I was hoping either Peter, somone from the Roon team, or another user could help address.

As follows:

Roon DSP Settings:

  1. Rate Conversion Filter - what is this and why would one want Precise or Smooth or Linear v Minimal?

  2. Sigma-Delta Modulator - what is this and why woud one want 5th v 7th and Clans v Non-clans? Does 5 v 7 correlate to the number of frequency bands?

  3. DSD to PCM Filter - why is a low pass filter necessary? In my setup, can I just go unfiltered? Wouldn’t my Wilson’s already address low pass filtering with their internal hardware (e.g., totally speaking out of school here but, capaciters, transisters, etc)?

  4. Headroom Management - Is this essentially equivalent to a volume control?

  5. Filters, usefulness, and setup - Any guidance and recommendations on these would be appreciated:

  • Parametric EQ - does using this artificially reduce the sound quality? Any presets available - rock, classical, jazz? Any recommended configuration? Is this even necessary?

(Note: My Lumin and Interconnects are only a couple of weeks ol - I have been running nonstop - and I would like a bit more bass tightness/punch and openness, but think my wants are more likely driven by the recording quality of the source Tidal material.)

Again, the purpose of this thread is to be supplementary to others that don’t address all of the configuration elements between Lumin T2 and Roon.

Thoughts from Peter, Roon, or others striving to get the most out of our equipement are much appreciated.

Have a rockin’ happy New Year!

Thanks,

MP

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Don’t do it unless you are doing room correction.

Happy New Year!

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Matt,as you have seen, Peter is extremely knowledgeable and helpful. I have had the Lumin T2 for a couple of years and find it to be an extremely accurate and transparent streamer/DAC. It is definitely the sweet spot in the Lumin line and sounds better than Streamers priced thousands of dollars more. Everyone’s system and ears are different but for me after trying all kinds of different settings, I think less is best. I would recommend two things. 1. Listen to the T2 just using the Lumin app. with no upscaling and listen to how it sounds with various files in just Flac, MQA, hi res only. For me, this is the best sound.2. Listen to it again in Roon in either renderer only or decoder and renderer, again with the same settings in the app. I am wed to Roon, and if I had my way, I would use the Lumin app because that sounds the best. In Roon,start by adding volume leveling. I don’t always use this, but it is convenient and doesn’t seem to change the sound much. Then, gradually add in upscaling to DSD in the Lumin app if you want to compare. I think you will find that even in basic Flac quality files, the Lumin DAC makes everything sound better with no upscaling. In other words, with a good file, lossless with the T2 always sounds the best. There are many great reference files you can use depending on your taste in music, but don’t forget one constant, a poorly recorded or engineered file usually does not sound that good no matter what you do to it. Try starting with a good basic CD level Flac File. Try, Lake Street Dive, album Fun Machine, track, I Want You Back…Enjoy.

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Thanks Thomas - will try this all.

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I’ve had a T2 in my setup for a few months now and have really enjoyed it. Great sound, reliable and looks nice in the rack too.

I drive it from Roon, with upsampling to 384 KHz and use convolution filters for room correction and time alignment and a procedural EQ (boosts gain by 3 dB to make up for the impact of the convolution filters). Roon really does give you a swiss army knife to make significant gains in your system performance if you are patient and have the time to fine tune.

I’ve recently picked up a MSB Premier DAC and Powerbase with the latest network renderer module. I’ll be putting them both through their paces side by side when I get some time in the next week. It will be interesting to compare an acknowledged heavyweight R2R implementation against the T2’s ESS implementation.

I imagine I’ll have some work ahead of me with level matching before testing begins, but I’m curious as to how much of a difference the MSB DAC will bring in NOS and in the same configuration i currently run Roon. I’ll also do some room measurements with the different DACs in place to see what, if any changes to the frequency response each brings to the table.

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According to Premier DAC specifications of 3.57V rms XLR output High, Lumin T2 volume may be set to 91 (enable both Volume Control and Leedh Processing Volume) to equalize the output level between the two. It’s more than 6 times the price on MSRP basis, right?

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Great, thanks @wklie. I’ll keep that in mind when testing.

Yeah this new unit is a fair chunk of change more expensive than the T2. I got it used so I’ve had someone else eat most of the new to used depreciation for me. It’s still a fair chunk more expensive than the T2 I have at that level anyway :wink: :crazy_face:

I think there will be a good amount of diminishing returns RE: investment that I’ll see, but who knows? I could be surprised.

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Look forward to reading your observations.

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What’s the rest of your setup - preamp, amp, speakers?