The differences between P1 Mini and T3X:
- P1 Mini has analog / digital inputs
- P1 Mini comes with IR remote control as a standard accessory
- T3X has a better chassis (similar to T3 and T2) but no analog / digital inputs or IR remote control (purchased separately)
- Other specs are essentially the same
The differences between T3X and T3:
- Toroidal linear power supply
- Femtoclock
- SFP fiber network
Thinking about upgrading from my T2 with sBooster.
Not in need of a pre amp, my budget makes me aim at a T again.
But dealers still offer the T3 when it seems discontinued at Lumin, who now offer the T3x. How should I consider the dealers offers of a discontinued device?
Can anyone share experience or knowledge on differences between T3 using sBooster or other external power supply versus the Internal linear toroidal now in T3x please?
I understand the warranty thing.
I hope my edited typo will trigger a response.
Will there be an x2 soon, an upgrade of the x1?
Lumin never announces future product plans. @wklie has been quite clear on this point.
I’m getting more excited about the T3x. I’ve long stated here my wish for a stock linear power supply, and the addition of the SFP input feels like a fun bonus!
I’m going to head over to my dealer and take a listen. I currently own the X1 in my main system, and the T2 in my second setup. I’m not unhappy with the T2, but I’ve long considered adding an SBooster or similar now that I’m probably out of warranty. But I like the idea that Lumin has this covered, and I heard a clear improvement with the SFP input in the X1.
@wklie, why would a buyer choose the T3x over a P1mini given the price similarity? It looks the main difference aside from inputs is the chassis. Is there an audible benefit owing to the reduced circuitry in the T3x? Can you give your impression of the sound profile of a T3x vs the P1 mini Or the T2? This review suggests the older units have a warmer darker sound (not a bad thing necessarily) and that the new T3X offers more transparency but not necessarily brighter sound.
Also, is there any trickle down hardware from the X1 in the output stage of the new T3x? I recall seeing that somewhere but couldn’t tell what it referenced.
My second system where this will be used is a Leben CS600x powering Graham Chartwell LS3/5a - it’s a warmer sound already, so the sound profile of the T3x might be helpful. I tend to keep my Streamer/DACs a while, not really into following every model grade, and thinking that, like the X1, this is a streamer DAC I would hang onto for the next 5+ years so the trade up costs don’t necessarily dissuade me, and I’m not certain that keeping the T2 and adding a DAC would be a better option (plus it adds another box).
It also sounds like the processor in the T3x allows for greater future software upgrades, helping future proof my choice for some time.
@DLS I am in the same boat as you. The Sbooster has some issues in the field, with a few T2 owners reporting potentially serious problems (and one retailer alerting to potential issues). I had also read a few comments that seemed to indicate the T2 enjoyed less benefit with an LPS than did the T1. That kept me from doing the upgrade.
I did upgrade the power supply on my D2 and heard very clear improvements, and I’ve heard similar improvements to DACs that I’ve added improved LPS. Owning the X1, I remain convinced the LPS contributes to an improved sound quality.
I’m going to listen tomorrow to the T3x but here’s my calculus on upgrading from the T2 to the T3x:
- Lumin’s LPS eliminates risk of warranty issues and need to hack the T3
- The SFP module option further increases potential sound quality benefits
- The ability to use both ethernet connects lets me also use the T3x as a network switch to add a NAS drive or L1/2 (not a huge selling point for me currently)
vs upgrading the power supply for my T2:
- no clear LPS solution that doesn’t pose serious risks of bricking the T2
- cost of an LPS/module is about $500
- No SFP option
- The T3x has an improved chipset for its processor that adds speed and capability for upsampling and filters (plus it may be more upgradeable for new software updates)
- Subject to Peter’s comments, it seems like there has been some X1 trickle down upgrades in the T3 analog output stage (perhaps capacitors) and the T3 and T3xx looks to also include these
If the T3x comes close to the X1 I already own, it feels like this is a no-brainer (especially as my dealer will give me a decent trade in value for the T2)
Thanks for your reply and input.
I own a T2 with sBooster. In my set up with Musical Fidelity M6 500i and Martin Logan ESL it had been a pleasure to my ears from day one.
To upgrade to a T3(x) would take at least a couple of thousand €.
I wonder if the upgrade would validate the investment.
All the improvements you mention I read like a step forward, but I also read on the net people switched back to the T2 with sBooster from a T3.
I also consider the more future proof upgrades as a the way to go, but I wonder if that would become an issue of the T2 in the coming years.
I am looking forward to your demo experience on the T3X.
My dealers still offers the T3 as the way to go since I own the sBooster. Maybe I am just trying to find arguments they are not pushing a discontinued product my side and the delta with T3X is minimal. But by now I wonder why I am challenging my intuition lol.
Just plugged the T3x in and after a quick firmware update it’s beginning its break in. My experience is that 50 hours are needed to form an impression. But just a few tracks in, and immediately I’m loving what I hear:
Bass is much fuller and fleshed out.
A slight digital haze on the T2 is gone
Lovely detail.
Overall smoother.
Taller soundstage.
I’ll put it on auto play and let it cycle through. But I can already predict it’s not going back to the dealer. It sounds closer to my X1 than the T2. And that’s using RJ45 Ethernet- still need to swap in the optical Ethernet.
After break in I’ll do a direct compare to the X1.
I hooked up the SFP switch today with the T3x. It’s a Trendnet with Finisar SFP modules. I ordered the modules from CDW and they match the versions I got from mouser so they look legitimate.
I don’t know if there is a break-in period but out of the box, the SFP connection was more transparent but a bit glassy. It loses some of the perceived warmth and saturation of tone. But it gained a bit more detail. For now, I prefer the Ethernet (and I’m using a cheap Cat6, no fancy cable). I’ll let it play continuously for another 24 hours.
I think the SFP modules just needed electrical signal running through them as they have stabilized overnight. I’m no longer hearing glassiness or hardness that I heard when they were fresh out of the box.
The SFP connection vs the RJ45 is interesting - I recall hearing a bigger difference with the X1, but it’s been two years since I last compared. In the T3x there seems to a tad more micro detail with the SFP, but the RJ45 “might” be more warm/euphonic? Either way it’s sounding especially lovely today.
If you go the SFP route, take care selecting your SFP modules, buy from trusted sources (not Amazon),and don’t form impressions until you’ve let the T3x run continuously playing music for 24 hours.
The T3x is a keeper - traded my T2 after a confirmation listening session just to be sure it was worth parting with the extra $$$$. It was. It would’ve been fun to compare a stock T3 but no way I wasn’t going to pop for the model with the LPS.
I came home and turned on the main system with the X1 which hasn’t had attention in the past few weeks.
UPDATE************
I compared the X1 to the T3x today. Spoiler alert - the X1 is still the better sounding streamer. But the T3x acquits itself quite well, and makes a good case for not spending 3x the price depending on your system and priorities.
Main system is pretty resolving - more so than my second setup. Main system is Devore 0/96 powered by 300b mono blocks and a 300b preamp, built by the designer of Bottlehead using custom spec’d parts including some unobtainum Magnaquest nickel iron transformers, Mundorf Supreme Silver Gold Foil in oil caps, and Vdam caps in the preamp. Cables are Acoustic Zen Absolute Copper I/C and Absolute speaker cables, and a range of high end power cables.
Second system where the T3x will reside is Graham Chartwell LS3/5a, powered by Leben CD600x integrated. Cables are Acoustic Zen silver reference and Satori speaker cables, and modest power cables.
I used the following tracks to compare (high Rez files indicated by *):
*Cantaloupe Island - Herbie Hancock
You’ll lose a good thing - Barbara Lynn
*Helium - Glass Animals
*Echowrecked - Kelly Jones/Stereophonics
Blue Drag - Alan Touissant
Free World - Martin Sexton
Hope is a Dangerous Thing… - Lana Del Rey
Here’s the high points of where the T3x shines:
Same “house sound” of the X1: there’s a warmth of the X1 that the T3x captures. It’s not dark, and it’s not syrupy, but rather fluid and tonally gorgeous.
Analog ease: notes just flow beautifully, and singers and piano and acoustic bass have body, weight, height.
Soundstage: both streamers present performances in a terrific soundstage, and acoustic recordings especially are spatially fun - you hear the layout of musicians on a stage and can isolate things in their own space on the stage.
Micro detail: the ability to pick out individual singers in a harmony, double tracked singers voicing in slightly different keys (Lana and Martin especially), the buzz on a cello or upright bass, the air flowing through the horn of a trumpet or sax. Just wonderful.
Where the X1 comes out consistently is in a few key areas:
Air/Realism - cymbals, horns (especially trumpet), piano have more air around them and exist in a more 3d space. The effect varied with the recording, but you notice it on Cantaloupe Island where there’s a decay of cymbals that seems to hang in its own space more in the X1 than the T3x, and the piano similarly has some decay and reverberance that are just slightly smeared in comparison to the T3x.
Micro micro detail - given how much more detail I heard in the T3x vs the T2, it was surprising that the X1 pulled yet even more detail. The trumpet in Cantaloupe island has some gorgeous air detail, the sax in You’ll Lose a Good thing has a bit more reediness, the bass detail in Helium and Free World is just more present.
Ease/flow: When the X1 played, it was harder to be analytical in listening - the music just envelops and encourages you to relax a bit more and enjoy the music.
If it seems like these differences were big, they are not massive. They aren’t 3x better as price might instruct. Imagine a spectrum, with the D2 was at one end, the X1 at the other, and the T2 in the middle. Introducing the T3x pushes the T2 a bit closer to the D2, and the T3x closer to the X1. I didn’t hear the T3 in my system (a friend has one) but I imagine it to occupy the middle of this updated spectrum.
When you factor in price, this makes the case for the T3x over the T3. You get a sound much closer to Lumin’s flagship for significantly less than the price difference between the T2/T3 and the T3x. It says more about the higher performance of the T3x than the X1.
It also has me wondering how Lumin will up the ante for the X1’s successor. The Sabre 9038Pro dac chip is still top of the Sabre heap, the Lumin’s power supply is already top notch, and while the faster processor will certainly help with super high Rez and oversampling, it’s not clear to me why the T3x’s fast processor is responsible for its greatly improved sound over the T2. Perhaps using even higher end Lundahl transformers in the output stage might bring some additional benefit? Lumin has its work cut out in designing the X2.
In the mean time, the T3x has enough trickle down sonics from the X1 that at its price, it’s probably my pick in the Lumin lineup. It’s real competition is a used X1.
Superb post.
I’ll hazard a guess that the faster processor is both electrically more efficient AND emits less RFI/EMI under normal use/load than the predecessor. Making for a quieter chassis.
P1Mini uses the same electronic components for T3X but adds analog / digital inputs and the IR remote control is standard rather than an optional purchase. However, the T3X chassis is better. The choice between the two comes down to whether you want the inputs and IR remote control, or a better chassis.
We also believe that removal of unneeded electronics would yield a very slight advantage.
T3X has single toroidal transformer LPS, femtoclock (also in X1 P1 P1Mini but not in T3 T2 and older models), and latest processor (in T3 U2 U2Mini but not T2 X1). (X1 has external dual toroidal transformer LPS, dual ES9038PRO DAC, and Lundahl output transformers which are very expensive.)
Peter, missed you at Axpona? I’m considering upgrading my D2 to the new TX3. Thoughts everyone?
While I’m working on the next major firmware release this month, our sales team and product manager will show up at exhibitions. 
Just received by T3X. I cannot underestimate the difference between it and the D2.
Wow.
Just Wow!
In Roon Only mode the T3x does not appear to go to sleep. Shoudl this be expected?
Please try Roon Auto Sleep function.
No luck with auto sleep, or at least the T3x has Roon Ready and the circle constantly illuminated. Can provide picture.