Many Missing Albums - Artists A And B

Hi,
I unsuccessfully looked for the following albums in Roon.This is only A and B. More to follow:

http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esoteric/essg90100/indexe.html
http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esoteric/essw90101/indexe.html




http://www.elusivedisc.com/Falla-The-Three-Cornered-Hat-XRCD24/productinfo/LIMSXRD014/

http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esoteric/essd90119/indexe.html
https://store.universal-music.co.jp/product/uccg5293/

http://www.kajimotomusic.com/jp/news/k=2457/
https://www.audiophilereferencerecordings.com.au/takashi-asahina-conducting-the-osaka-philharmonic-orchestra-bruckner-symphony-no-8.html
https://www.tacet.de/main/seite1.php?layout=katalog&language=en&filename=production.php&bestnr=01103

https://www.deccaclassics.com/en/cat/4831510
https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.112052
http://tahra.com/liste_product.php?search_field=pp.reference&content=liste_product&cle_second_parent=id_productscategorie&id_productscategorie=1&search_data=Tah+631&submit_rechercher=Search
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=14690&album_group=14
http://www.sa-cd.net/showtitle/8088







http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esoteric/essg90107/indexe.html

http://shop.dsdfile.com/2013/11/29/a-selection-of-analogue-eric-bibb/


http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esoteric/essg90053/indexe.html
https://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.550110

https://www.accords-croises.com/en/label/abu-sadiya


http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esoteric/essd90121/indexe.html
http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esoteric/esss90056/indexe.html
http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=78560

Thanks,
Rudi

In fact, at least two of the items above are indeed in the database, possibly more than two:

Let us know if you need helping improving your album identification skills. :slight_smile:

Thanks Ludwig,
I would be extremely grateful for some tips on how to find a particular album. I find the search possibilities in the identify album dialogue extremele limited and frustrating. Take the Argerich Album you pointed out to me. How on earth can I find out what exactly to search for. “Argerich Schumann” will NOT find the album, “Argerich Schumann Chamber Works” will.
The same is true for the Barenboim one. “Barenboim Debussy” will NOT find the album, “Barenboim Debussy orchestral music” will.
Searching for the Artist and Composer only has worked best for me, but these two are simply too hard to find…
So some tips would be most welcome, Thanks a lot.

I have now re-ripped the Argerich one to see if it identified. Interestingly enough it is not identified as the one Ludwig indicated, but as this one:


So there seem to be at least two instances of this album with different metadata.

Could it be that when reripping you now have the albumartist set to composer and that is pushing Roon towards the release above rather, whereas the other release has the albumartist set to the main performers and so better matched what you originally had. Although even then only some of the performers are listed, since there are quite a few it may be better considered as a Various Artist release.

https://musicbrainz.org/release/f602dacb-7850-4f8b-b784-8e7f4f3455db

Since there is a separate composer field (and the composer is usually part of the album title) it makes sense for Classical albums that the albumartist should be set to the main people involved in creating the actual recording (conductor/orchestra/performers) rather than the (often long dead) composer, but many ripping/tagging tools don’t do this

Thanks, Paul
I tag my albums with the following tags:

  • Album Artist (TPE2)
  • Artist
  • Album
  • Genre
  • Date
  • Composer
  • Conductor
  • Orchestra
  • Soloist

In the meantime I have reripped the Argerich Album, removed all the tags (except disc and track number) as suggested in another thread and lo and behold, Roon correctly identified it. I am now reripping all the albums Roon cannot find and making sure the metadata is correct. Now Roon finds almost all of them.
I will make a (much smaller) list of the ones that remain.

Right, but what do you actually set the Album Artist to for Classical albums ?

The album artist is the principal artist, in this case Martha Argerich.
Interestingly, with no tags, the album is identified as the “Schumann: Chamber Works” one, which I would regard as the main entry.

With the tags set to

Album Artist (TPE2): Argerich, Martha
Artist: Argerich, Martha
Album: Schumann - Kammermusik (EMI 7243 5 55484 2 9) (44.1_16)
Genre: Classical
Date: 1995
Composer: set for each Track
Conductor: empty
Orchestra: empty
Soloist: Argerich, Martha; Hall, Lucie; Schwarzberg, Dora

it is identified as the “Chamber Music” one

I do not think your value for Album of Schumann - Kammermusik (EMI 7243 5 55484 2 9) (44.1_16) is helping, I wonder if just setting Album field correctly would sort things.

Also, the contents of the Album Artist, Artist, and Soloist tags are sort names, not names. This isn’t helpful to Roon which does make use of these tags when identifying content.

There are tags which are reserved for this type of sorting: ALBUMARTISTSORT, ARTISTSORT, COMPOSERSORT, etc.

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That’s a useful observation - and qualifies as a snippet of best practice, IMO. It would be good to see this info worked into the KB article on File Tag best practice

Regarding Schumann - Kammermusik (EMI 7243 5 55484 2 9) (44.1_16)

  1. Would Roon ignore the bracketed information to give _Schumann - Kammermusik or not ?
  2. Does Roon have non-English (i,e German) versions of albums or only English ?

In order to do that, I would need to know beforehand what the Album title is that Roon expects to see. Setting it after the fact is easy of course.
:slight_smile:

I am in Europe, where names are usually sorted by last name, so this would be the “normal” way of naming an artist / composer / soloist. Does this mean, I would need to change all people’s names to “firstname lastname”?
Interestingly, Roon does add the “firstname lastname” artist form to some albums, even to some that it did not manage to identify.

In general it seems to me that the identification algorithm is very powerful, maybe it just needs some tweaking of the way it weighs certain factors. It seems to stumble often on track durations that are a few seconds different than in the Roon database.

But clearly (EMI 7243 5 55484 2 9) (44.1_16) is not part of the album name. If you are naming all your albums like this you should probably change it to stop adding the CatalogNo and Sample rate. Although I don’t know if Roon does something to ignore info in brackets.

I’m in UK which is also in Europe (despite rumours to to the contrary). Yes it usual for names to be sorted by last name, but not displayed by lastname. That is why there are separate fields for ARTIST & ARTISTSORT, the first is the display name and the second is the sortname

Another reason for separate fields is you want to display a person in their native script, but sort according to your script
e.g

Display as Пётр Ильич Чайковский
Sort As Tchaikovsky, Pyotr Ilyich

I wrote an article on name sorting that may be useful to you http://blog.jthink.net/2017/03/minimserver-with-songkongpart-2sorting.html

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Thanks, Paul
that makes a lot of sense.
I don’t think the samplerate in brackets has ever been a problem. Roon seems to extract everything in brackets and display it below the album cover. For me it is a convenient way to include information that helps me keep apart the different versions of an album (e.g. 1979 Remaster etc.). Sometimes for Japanese issues, I add the catalog number, as there are tons of issues for any album over there.
I have never bothered with the artist etc. sort tags, but I guess that could be done with scripts in jRiver. I mainly use jRiver for tagging, as it has a great type ahead feature suggesting i.e. artist names I have used before.
I am quite close to having re-ripped my classical CDs. So far, Roon has correctly identified 99% of the newly ripped and tagged ones, so I guess I am very happy.
When I am through I will think about doing some further refinements as per your suggestions. Your blog looks like a great resource! Looks like it could keep me busy for quite a while. Thanks a lot

Glad you are making progress! :+1:

There is a CATALOGNUMBER tag which Roon reads. I use it from time to time, for much the same reasons as you. (I’ve always wondered why that isn’t used for identifying albums. Could be a magic bullet…) RELEASECOUNTRY is also available, and is displayed but not searchable, I think.

Point taken about sample rate, but I never much liked that “version” display in Roon because it’s not focus-able or search-able. In any case, Roon displays the sample rate right next to it, no? And that is focus-able.

Hi Ludwig
The samplerate information in the album name as well as some other comments in brackets help me keep different versions of the same album apart (i.e. “2010 Remaster”). As one never knows how playback and UI technology changes, I try to make my metadata portable between different UIs like Roon, jRiver, my phone, my car etc.
So far I have not seen Roon balk at the information in the brackets, so I guess it should be ok to leave it there.