Yes you are right, my mistake. The up sampling wass coming from the Core Audio. I corrected the settings and now I get 96k on Gris-Gris
Regarding the 96 limit, I know that is the limit that Apple use internally, in fact on the midi settings the maximum that is the maximum you can gain the built-in output.
The same Roon when plays hi-res music over 96k on the mac has to down sample it to 96K but when it send it to the Devialet it sends the full signal. So i wondering if the Tidal app hasn’t been done taking in consideration these intrinsic limits and in reality they can be overcome by Roon’s implementation
thanks
Q42. I’d like to ask about MQA decoding.
Does it require hardware, software or both?
Will there be a Linux software decoder library which will be able to be incorporated into the existing Linux audio ecosystem (perhaps something similar to how Nvidia provides proprietary graphics drivers for its video cards to the Linux community)?
Can you indicate what sort of licensing fee, if any, might be required for the enthusiast running their own Linux music playback system for personal use who would like to be able to decode MQA? Many thanks for any enlightenment.
A42.
MQA decoding does not require hardware, it can be performed on a number of different platforms. But the decoder normally runs in the context of paired DAC(s).
Currently we license decoder builds for Windows, OSX, Linux, Android, iOS, XMOS, some custom platforms, with several more coming.
We are rolling out the decoder platform licensing in stages and no decision has been taken yet about this type of application. But we will in due course so please stay in touch.
Q43. Soft decoding:
Will software decoding be allowed (and when)?
Will software decoding get the complete benefit that will be possible with hardware MQA DACs? If not what will the differences be?
Will a MQA decode software module be available for integration into third party music players that run on generic PCs and Macs?
A43.
We already have software decoders for a number of hardware, portable and mobile platforms. In these three cases the decoder has the benefit of precise knowledge of the DAC and associated hardware.
See A42, there is no inherent quality difference between MQA decoders unless they are operating in designated power-saving modes. However, it is inevitable that a properly designed hardware product, incorporating the decoder and DAC will give the better result. The performance level that MQA enables, allows hardware makers an even better environment on which to stretch their skills. For the audiophile, this should be very exciting.
We do anticipate a program to enable such applications, but the requirement for tight DAC coupling and the obligation to match the previewed audio (in the studio) means that several combinations and options are still being explored with both DAC makers and creators of software players. We will make announcements in due course.
Yes the DAC built into your mac might be limited to 24/96. Some software allow the configuration of max sample rate, or if it doesn’t then yes non exclusive and forcing core audio to 96 is the only solution when playing content > 96.
Bandwidth is more of a business issue than a technical issue. The MQA people have apparently decided to bet on bandwidth remaining a scarce resource in a sufficiently large part of the market to be interesting. They will be proven right, or they will not. Nothing you can say will influence that outcome. You have the opposite view, ok. (As for me, I have made similar professional bets on technology and demographic trends, especially in the current decade.)
On the technical issue: at the 2L site, the Magnificat at 352/24 is 4.15 GB, the MQA-352 is 671 MB, 6.6 X smaller.
The Mozart violin concerto:
44/16 is 48 MB
352/24 is 724 MB, or 15X bigger
DSD64 is 373 MB, or 8X bigger
DSD128 is 746 MB, or 16X bigger
MQA-352 is 94 MB, or 1.8X bigger
If you have technology or knowhow to compress lossless PCM or DSD better than MQA, you should share it with the industry.
All we know is what Joel said here in response to the statement by Chris Connaker on CA:
it seems likely that the Roon decoder will do 98kHz/24 bit as Tidal is doing. The real question is whether Roon can do better than that, given that it usually knows exactly what the DAC is.
I would be very careful in making any determinations about MQA based on comparisons among CD rips, Tidal HiFi, and Tidal Masters.
For a given album, a CD rip easily could be from a mastering made in the 1980s. The corresponding Tidal HiFi then could be from a remaster made in the 2000s. And the corresponding Tidal Masters now could be from a high resolution remaster made in the past few years. Three different masterings. Differences in dynamic range and EQ can be dramatic between/among different masterings of the same source, thereby swamping any legitimate comparison of formats.
So, source provenance will be key. A recent recording that has been mastered just once and in high resolution may provide for fair comparison, as the same mastering has served as the source for all releases up to and including MQA. Any level differences among the formats, though, still must be normalized.
Your point is well made and I must be careful when making comparisons. Often, especially when streaming, it is impossible to know which version one is listening to.
@WiWavelength is undoubtedly correct when it comes to the important job of assessing MQA against other formats, but speaking for myself as a rather naive listener, it is thoroughly enjoyable to have better versions to listen to; yes, I’m talking about Led Zeppelin 1.
Definitely agree with this. That said, if MQA does nothing else but encourage labels to release better masters then it’s a huge win already. I’ve always thought that quality of the mastering will always trump quality of the digital sampling, encoding, lossless vs. lossy, etc. But, for whomever is interested in those details, you can download free samples of DSD’s, high resolution FLACs, mp3’s, and MQA encoded FLACs from the same recent master from the L2 label.
It is not so much what Roon can do (we know these guys can work miracles – it is rumoured that one of them once killed a grown grizzly with his own bare hands), but more of what MQA will allow. For all we know these talks could still be ongoing, so a little patience is probably just what the doctor ordered.
Agree, I expect an official announcement from MQA drawing clear lines on what will be capable from software decoding and what will only be possible from MQA certified DAC.
And also the advantages of one over the other.
I can’t think of a reason they (MQA) would kill the dedicated DAC market by allowing free open full decoding.
The DAC manufactures have paid license fees and put time and resource into developing their product and (not unreasonable) wish to show ongoing profits from sales.
My assumption is that you will get the sort of decoding Tidal offer now FOC in apps and anymore will need dedicated equipment. I appreciate we have paid for Roon and Tidal so it’s not free.
That seems very fair and reasonable to me if this is the case.
Lossy streaming is so ‘yesterday’ lol
Just thoughts as I enjoy Van Morrison in MQA
I think that might be the one. It’s titled “Led Zeppelin (Remastered)” and the Track Info shows it started streaming from Tidal on 20 January 2015. It’s now streaming as an MQA Master in Tidal, so I’m listening at 48kHZ, 24 bit in Roon. I expect it unfolds partly in Tidal and more in an MQA DAC. Previously I was listening to the (Deluxe Edition), which started streaming in Tidal on 5 June 2016. I prefer the Remastered.
@andybob I’m not sure those dates mean much. There was both a remastered regular version of LZ1 and a deluxe version with extra tracks released the same day. I bet they are the same mastering.
Édit: Just checked myself. I am showing three versions of LZ1 from TIDAL in Roon. The Deluxe version with the reversed cover (16/44), a copy of the regular version with derailed info from Roon (16/44), and a second version of the regular one that appears to be the MQA (24/48).
This is a Bits and Bytes free post.
I’ve kept out of this bun fight, sorry, debate, so far but now that Tidal is streaming and decoding well known material MQA can be fairly assessed for its main intended use, improving the perceived sound quality for the majority of streaming listeners, the non-audiophile listener with average equipment who doesn’t care less about bit rates and bandwidths and you know what? It works!
Any improvement available to audio enthusiasts is surely incidental to the primary goal of MQA, improving the quality of streamed music to the mass market, where the future of music consumption lies.
In addition to my main systems I have an iMac based setup in my work studio assembled mainly from leftovers, that’s normally playing music from my Roon library and the difference listening to Tidal decoded albums is clear. No need for double blind or a/b tests, its improvement is immediately night and day clear! It’s like switching from Apple EarPods to my Audeze LCD3.
When I try the same Tidal decoded music through either of my main systems, the level of improvement just isn’t the same (surprise, surprise) and I do have to listen carefully to perceive any differences but I expected that. I will be trying a couple of dedicated MQA dac solutions in both my main systems to see if more is achievable that way but for now I’m really looking forward to the release of the Mytek Clef to get all the MQA benefits for my mobile listening. I can’t wait.