I think you are wrong, if you play a 192kHz original sample rate MQA file, let Roon do the first unfold and send it to the bluesound Node2, the bluesounds digital out is 96kHz.
MQA is an end to end system and you need an MQA DAC for the final rendering. So the analog output of the Node will be MQA Music.
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Ok, so, in your opinion to get the max (digital wise) from the MQA trough Node 2 one should set him as render only and use his analog outputs, correct?
Iām saying ādigital wiseā because in my particular case no matter what Iām doing on the Node 2 / Roon perspective, the most appealing (to my ears) sound that I can get from my system is trough another DAC connected to the Node 2 digitalās output. To be more specific, the sound of an 192kHz original MQA file itās better to me when played as a 96kHz signal from the Node 2ās digital output than itās sounds from his analog output (regardless the fact that in this scenario the Node 2 analog output comes from an 192kHz signal).
I agree a first unfold played through an excellent dac will probably sound beter than a full unfold using the internal bluesound dac.
Well, looks like Iām just another victim of todayās marketing culture and of my personal technical illiteracy. But Iām new to this whole computer audio thing and Iām just fooling around to see what all the fuss is about. I started with Node 2 because itās advertised as ROON ready and MQA capable, after a few months and a deeper look in the science behind, looks like actually it is not very ready and his capabilities are used at max only ifā¦ whatever conditions.
Fortunately (in my opinion) the only thing I care about is good sounding music and for the moment I have just that. But lesson learned and Iāll do a much better homework job when Iāll search for a better sounding and capable DAC (if that will ever happen).
In the end, you must let your ears decide. The Node 2 is what it is and itās an MQA certified DAC. More expensive DACs may well sound better and more capable MQA DACās could sound better stillā¦ so, where do you stop? We have to decide for ourselves. Itās the music that counts. You are getting first unfold in Roon which is a great bonus. Music has never sounded better what ever formatā¦ IMHO
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Youāre right, but my problem with todayās audio endeavors itās not when to stop (Iāve learned that in my 30 years or so of audio joy) but how to start. Looks like the new things (MQA, computer based audio and so on) they have the tendency to be more and more complicated and one needs to do a huge amount of research in order to achieve the best possible AQ. Itās not necessary a bad thing (learning itās part of the experience) butā¦ I sincerely prefer spending time listening that searching to see why 96kHz soundās sometimes better that 192kHz and stuff like that.
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Thatās a big subject lol. Thatās why I like the system approach designed by people who know what they are doing. Then I forget about it and enjoy the music. Assisting hosting live music is a big thing in my life and is my benchmark to all things musical. Itās cost me a fortune but saved me a bigger fortune lol.
Most active performing musicians I know do not have a stick of Hi Fi and know even less about it. They get their kicks live and in the studioā¦
@Chrislayeruk @Peter_Hafkamp I think I am correct. Let me explain.
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Prior to BluOS 2.18.0, the only way to get full MQA decoding using Roon was to eventually use the MQA-enabled DAC in your Bluesound device or by MQA pass-through to an MQA-enabled DAC. Roon did the first pass and then the MQA DAC ā either on a Bluesound or external device ā did the rest of the heavy lifting.
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With the implementation of the most recent Roon RAAT by Bluesound, embodied in BluOS 2.18.0, Bluesound enabled a software (not DAC) rendering of the MQA stream. See the attached Roon stream path before it gets to the output stage. Note that before output, the stream is already at 192Hz.
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According to Bluesound, one can output an MQA stream over its digital outputs (capable of 24/192) in the following manner:
From a Bluesound product manager:
If you have an external DAC that is certified by MQA, you may bypass Bluesoundās MQA rendering process in the Bluesound NODE 2 or VAULT 2 and send the pure untouched music bits directly via TOSLink Optical or Digital COAX output for processing by your external DAC.
In the Player Selection Drawer, press the Settings icon next to the selected NODE 2 or VAULT 2
From the Audio Settings page, set Tone Controls to Off
_Set Audio output levels to Fixed _
MQA External DAC will no longer be grayed out, set this to Yes
Close Audio Settings
The Bluesound NODE 2 and VAULT 2 will now bypass MQA processing.
- Note that in the Bluesound product manager explanation, heās letting an external MQA do the rendering. But in Roonās case, the rendering has already been accomplished, so one may use the digital out to get the decoded MQA stream!
Maybe someone from the Roon management team can confirm ā or correct ā this explanation.
Cheers, Flashman
@john Could you review my post and let me know if Roon management thinks itās accurate? Thanks!
āIf you have an external DAC that is certified by MQA, you may bypass Bluesoundās MQA rendering process in the Bluesound NODE 2 or VAULT 2 and send the pure untouched music bits directly via TOSLink Optical or Digital COAX output for processing by your external DAC.ā
I think that applies to another certified MQA DAC. What if your DAC is not MQA certified? By definition, it cannot be MQA. (It still may sound great)
Hello @Flashman,
The āMQA External DACā setting in the BluOS app will not effect the deviceās behavior regarding MQA playback in Roon.
If you have an MQA DAC connected to the digital outputs of the Bluesound device, the equivalent to the āMQA External DACā setting when using Roon would be to set the MQA Capabilities in Roonās Device Setup to āFull Decoderā.
If the MQA DAC connected to the Bluesound device is capable of MQA renderer only mode, you can safely leave the Bluesound zone MQA Capabilities set to āRenderer onlyā.
-John
@john Thanks for your response. One last question: if the fully decoded/rendered MQA stream from Roon (assuming an appropriate updated Bluesound device is in the chain) is sent via the digital output of a Bluesound device to a non-MQA DAC, is one still getting the full effect of MQA? That is the key issue! My supposition is that once the MQA stream has been decoded/rendered within the Roon/Bluesound ecosystem then MQA material doesnāt require further modification at the DAC level. But I could be wrongā¦
Hello @Flashman,
No, they would not be getting the full effect of MQA. The digital outputs of the Bluesound device will pass along the MQA core decoded stream, also referred to as the āfirst unfoldā. The core decoded stream will have a maximum bit depth and sample rate of 24/96. The MQA rendering stage, also referred to as the āsecond unfoldā, involves things like sample rates higher than 24/96 as well as platform specific DAC compensation and management. You must have an MQA DAC to realize the benefits of the āsecond unfoldā rendering.
-John
@john @Chrislayeruk @Peter_Hafkamp
John, thanks for this confirmation.
Chris and Peter, you were correct that I need to be using the analog out on the Node 2 to get the second and final unfold effects.
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Looks like they are, unfortunatelyā¦
Iām trying to slowly but surely understand the voices against the MQA. It looks like a very complicated joke with a lot of energy involved in (from developers, manufacturers and so on) for a result which (as far as my understanding goes) itās nothing more than a (very hard obtained) 24 / 88.2 or 96 or whatever. Maybe Iām wrong but thatās my impression at the moment (sorry if Iām off topic).
Thank you all anyway for making the things a little bit more clearly for me.
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@anon82498359 Glad to help in any way, though I apologize if I sent you (and others) down a rabbit hole with my faulty thought that the Roon MQA stream could play correctly without an MQA DAC! I can understand your frustration with MQA and Bluesound playback. For me, MQA music can sound better. It really depends on the original file and whether the quality was there to begin with. Plus, I have highly resolving speakers (Vivid Oval 1.5s) and a highly resolving amp (Devialet 200) so itās difficult to listen to anything but really well recorded music. In the end, at least for me, the addition of Roon processing for MQA files has made a difference. For others, some think that MQA is a travesty, akin to snake oil. In my opinion, MQA does provide tangible benefits but at a cost, not the least of which is trying to wring the best possible sound out of an MQA file, amid many technical starts and stops. I think one of the most overlooked benefits of MQA will be in the mobile space, whereby people will be able to listen to MQA on the go, in their cars, etc. Anyway, enjoy your music, MQA or not!
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I believe my frustration is with Roon + Node 2 combination rather that with Node 2 alone. I didnāt expect the Node 2 to sound like a $$$$$ DAC anyway (this is why I use him just as a bridge between network and my already in the system DAC). As a standalone player (using the BluOS interface and analog outputs) looks like it is fully MQA compatible/certified, so no complains here (except for my personal opinion about how it sounds). Another personal frustration point is that one really need to do some very comprehensive documentation before jumping in the MQA trainā¦
But this is just me and my (in)experience, in the end itās not only about knowing what you want it is also about wanting what you know.
Well, I am finding the MQA sound very addictive. This is causing me to lose sleep as I keep playing āJust one moreāā¦ Try Gregory Porter at 96kMQAā¦ Gorgeous
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^ I`ve been having same kind of thoughts since the 2.18.0 updateā¦
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