New developments for Spotify?

Thank you everyone - I will let you know how the plan works out with the NUC. I also may use an Apple TV Gen 3 and an extra iPad to control it all. I should have it all setup by the end of next weekend.

Hi there @Joshua_Aaron. Wondering how things have gone for you thus far with the NUC?

I am considering a new streamer myself and looked at a bunch of options. I also wanted to start my Roon journey so would like to add a Core too. Lastly I have a small ~500 CD collection I’ve been keeping stored away and I’d dearly love to be able to easily play them. Interesting that for me, I’ll be initially routing my streamer via a small outboard SMSL SU-8 DAC (for now), and then into my Peachtree Nova 125 Aux In to send out to my LS50’s. I’m looking at replacing my Nova 125 integrated with something like Schiit Audio Vidar amp and Freya + preamp. However, that is for later.

For now my focus is on a new streamer and Roon. I have not yet made a purchase, but am leaning towards the Innuos Zen Mini MK3. Yeah it is expensive, like perhaps twice more expensive as a Node 2i. It doesn’t have a screen ( a la Cambridge Audio CNX v2 (similar price as the Innuos) and there is no Chromecast built in. So what’s to like?

The Zen Mini brings these things to the table for me. 1) Can run as both Roon Core and Endpoint simultaneously, 2) Has a built-in ripper to import all my CD’s as FLAC files. 3) Tidal and Qobuz support (via Roon), 4) Excellent OS software, 5) Build and finish, 6) Upgradeability, 7) and of course sound quality (subjective I know).

Together, this functionality listed above allows me to accomplish a couple of things in one unit, while at the same time having an upgrade path to something even better as budget allows. By this I am referring to the optional outboard linear power supply, as well as the newer re-clocker.

I can finally rip my CD’s again, removing most of the tedious tagging and artwork legwork. The Innuous is noted as doing this quite well. I can also begin my Roon Journey at the same time, with the same unit, and plan on using it in Roon Experimental Mode. This is where when using Roon, the Zen Mini is both acting as Core, and Endpoint at the same time. Another entry point offering an attractive and clear upgrade path. As I add additional Roon enabled endpoints into my system, I can dedicate the Zen Mini to Core duties only. So functionality now in an integrated package, with ability to separate Dac, Roon Endpoint, and power, all off board as you grow into your system.

So now, the Zen Mini is $1,249 USD retail, so close to 4 times what you spent on your NUC deal. So price while, not really apples to apples, but rather a different approach based on my own needs. Now, I need to decide if spending $1,249 is worth it, for me.

Cheers,
Eric

Eric - unfortunately my NUC arrived damaged and I’m in the process of getting it RMAed and need to start over. So, I can’t tell you much yet. I did just pick up a DragonFly Cobalt and I’m having a little fun with that running off my MacBook Pro as a combined Core and Endpoint for now. I have also figured out how to stream from Roon through my Denon HEOS Link V2 into my 2-channel rig via the Peachtree Nova 150 and into my Home Theatre room via Denon AVR-1600H (using the Denon’s AirPlay). So far, I’m getting more acquainted with Roon and generally liking it, though I also find greater simplicity in streaming from Tidal directly at times.

Sorry, but you couldn’t me more wrong. “This is why using their own app is the only way to control it on any device”. The Sonos app has complete control of Spotify. You can also completely control Spotify through Alexa. Not sure why you are so aggressive toward Spotify, but maybe read a little before you give bad advice.

Again you are wrong. Sonos can stream 100s of streaming services including UPNP and Spotify.

What you are saying, unfortunately, is incorrect.

Spotify allows for third-party control and reading and changing of their database. In fact they’ve made this very easy to do… Have a look here https://developer.spotify.com/

I got my Home Assistant hooked up and this works amazing. I can start/stop etc… and even stream directly to Spotify Connect enabled devices from within Home Assistant. I can browse through my playlist from within Home Assistant (a free open-source project for home automation). Even the free Volumio project has Spotify fully supported. See the Home Assistant docs how easy this is. https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/spotify/

So I think we have to turn this around and ask a different question. Is Roon willing to add support for Spotify? I say not

That is because they are free, not in spite of them being free.

And you are wrong.

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Sorry but its not the same at all. Home assistant is not a commercial product like Roon. Much the same way Volumio isn’t either. . It’s very different when your a commericial entity and Roon has already said this. Also as explained so many times. Roon isn’t Sonos or Bluesound or Volumio it works in a very different way and relies on the streaming service to provide data in a way that they need. Not use an API to access their data they way they want. If they won’t it won’t happen that simple. I am not against having Spotify I subscribe to it. What I object to is having a half arsed service that’s doesn’t follow Roons model as thats why I bought Roon for a fully integrated library. Otherwise I’d use Bluesound or Sonos or some other software.

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I have used on both. Windows 10 is a pain as you need to log on if the NUC reboots for some reason. I left W10 on the SSD in case I need it but put in an M2 drive with ROCK which is maintenance free.

To be a little bit less curt, there are a number of reasons why Spotify will likely and unfortunately never be integrated in Roon. None of them have to do with goodwill on Roon’s behalf, and the same applies to AmazonHD integration. If you have any doubt about this, turn the question around again, and ask yourself why Roon, who is selling a way to experience music, wouldn’t want to integrate the most popular streaming services.

Now, to help you on your Spotify-ation journey, as far as I can tell, you essentially have two options if you’d like Spotify and Roon at (more or less) the same time:

One is to get an endpoint that does both Roon Bridge and Spotify.

The second is to look into making a (free) extension that would allow for Spotify playback.

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Well, I think this has to do with Spotify not supporting Hi-Ress streaming as Tidal and Qobuz do. Roon is all about making no compromises between use-ability and sound quality. Don’t get me wrong, Roon is awesome is so many ways.

I honestly don’t want to come across like a giant Spotify fanboy as I mostly listen to my local music library. I’m just amazed that there is no collaboration between Roon and Spotify as this is by far the most popular streaming service where I come from (The Netherlands). I literally know no one in my surroundings using Tidal, Quboz or Apple Music.

This is really interesting!

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It obviously isn’t as good as the alternatives, but as long as users want it, I don’t think it’s a dealbreaker for the devs. Even if they could legally do something with just the API, which they can’t, the usability compromise would be too big. For example, I’m not sure you could do Valence (so Roon’s AI recommendation engine) with just API integration. If you’re selling $600 software, you do not want to have to start to explain to your user that there’s stuff they can do here but not there because there’s that technobabble babble complicated oook i stopped listening i just wanted this thing to work.

It really isn’t on Roon’s plate - if they can find a way to integrate, they certainly will. Same with Amazon Music, and same with Apple Music.

This is actually a really good point. When you pay top dollar for software, it better works flawless. I checked the Spotify forum which is full of requests to work with Roon. So let’s hope the two can come together in the future.

Thanks for your insights.

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For example, Logitech Media Server (Squeezebox) has worked with Spotify for a long time. In fact, the recently released LMS ver 8.0 allows for integration of Spotify and Tidal into the user’s music library. (Sort of like what Roon does except on a very basic level. That is, one can browse/search etc. one’s LMS library and the Spotify or Tidal albums/artists are embedded right along with the user’s own collection of ripped files. But of course, without the rich set of “connections” across the metadata that Roon provides.)

I’m emphatically no coder, but my hunch is the best realistic bet for Roon integration might start with the Entrypoints extension. Whether it’s possible to provide more than a virtual line-in is another question entirely.

I’m currently working on a Bluetooth Entrypoint, this will provide an easy way to make the Spotify to Roon connection. It runs on a Raspberry Pi and advertises itself as a Bluetooth speaker. You connect your phone to it like you do with any other Bluetooth speaker:

bt-entrypoint-device

In the Entrypoint Settings you select the phone that has to be the playback device:

Then you connect to the Entrypoint radio stream in Roon and play it in the zones of your liking.

When this is available it will be announced in the Entrypoints thread you already linked to.

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Really loving this idea.

With the release of 1.8’s new recommendation engine, this makes Spotify (and Deezer) integration all the more important. I want to have all my services combined into one place, and use Roon not just for management – but most importantly, music /discovery/. Limiting the number of sources we can pull from dramatically reduces the breadth and depth of new discoveries. This is especially true for indie artists who simply don’t release on more limited platforms like Tidal and Qobuz.

The idea that because you can use Spotify connect with most Roon endpoints, completely negates this major advantage of using Roon. It also ignores the DSP features within Roon, but that’s another discussion.

General Restrictions | Spotify for Developers.

Commercial use: Making commercial use of the Spotify platform is not allowed, unless you have the specific written permission of Spotify and its partners.

Sonos and Tesla are the two big exceptions. The Sonos integration is old and at a time when Spotify needed Sonos. My guess is the executives just wanted spotify in their Teslas.

Alexa integration is written by Spotify. It is Spotify that supports Alexa, not the other way around.

Absolutely we would be.

Again, not commercial.

Again, not commercial. Notice a pattern? :slight_smile:

And before anyone asks if we’ve asked: we have and we were strung along for a long time until they finally gave us a clear answer of no, along with their reasoning that they want to own the user experience, and that’s in conflict with letting us own the user experience.

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