New (was back in 2021) iFi Zen Stream device

Audio Gear Talk iFi
2806

@Markus_Hubner

Roon/HQP (Mac Mini) → ZS → Curious Evolved USB → W4S Recovery (aka RUR) → Marantz SACD 30n (also serves as DAC, I play physical CD and SACD regularly) → Decware ZRock2 (tube EQ) → Decware CSP3 (tube preamp) → Marantz Model 30 (as power amp) → Magnepan LRS with MagnaRiser stands.

Duelund cabling. Shunyata or Audience power cables.

The one Farad Super3 is powering both the ZS and the W4S Recovery (RUR) via a Farad Level 1 split DC cable. There has been a ground loop issue between the two that Farad (Pink Faun) is helping me to resolve. I have to disconnect the Curious Evolved or the Farad won’t power on the ZS if also connected to the RUR. Once powered up, I then connect the Curious and the Super3 remains powered.

I tried having the Elite power the ZS and the Farad power the RUR, but the magic was gone. It was ok. But not as good as having the Farad power both. I’m very fond of what the RUR re-clocker does to heal the often jaggedness of USB. Makes USB sound more like coax, which I prefer.

I could return the Farad split DC cable (it cost $150) and put that towards a second Super3. But that makes me feel like a nut because of spending $1000 on power supplies to power $500 worth of gizmos!

To be clear though, having the Farad Super3 power both the ZS and the RUR led to the highest sound quality I’ve ever heard in my system. Better than even physical SACD.

1 Like
2807

I very much know what you mean - though the good thing is the ZS performance and other high potential devices will scale / improve with a better power supply. So it might seem weird but I‘d suggest going for a second Super3.
You also might loan/try out an Audioquest Niagara 1200 which will improve the performance of all devices connected.

2 Likes
2808

I’m leaning towards keeping this 9V Super3 for the RUR and order a 12V for the ZS.

2 Likes
2809

That seems perfect. And the road to improvement is still there, different power cords for the Super3 or as mentioned the Niagara 1200 in the future - which will really help for your whole setup. Though you already got definitely an amazing sound quality, enjoy!

2 Likes
2810

For those who don’t know, Pink Faun is a Dutch company that makes very high end music servers. They developed, among other things, power supplies for those servers. The co-founder/developer of Pink Faun then founded Farad to market those power supplies.

While in theory the one Super3 should power both my ZenStream and W4S RUR, despite numerous experiments directed by Farad, it’s simply not working - it turned into a bit of an ordeal. It will power one, or the other, but not both without often going into protection mode. They’ve been very generous and offered a second Super3 at a nice discount which should arrive in about a week.

I have tried various iFi power supplies (including the Elite), along with several SBoosters on different devices. With all of those I was never quite sure if things sounded better. It seemed to, but I wasn’t certain and would keep the power supplies simply because they were supposed to sound better.

With the Super3, there’s no doubt about the sonic improvements. Very curious to see what two Super3’s do. Also aim to purchase a Pink Faun LAN Isolator (159 euro) for the ZS.

3 Likes
2811

The second Super3 will definitely be another boost in sound quality. Though there is one thing I would consider: those LAN isolaters are not a real solution. I tried a bunch of them and they do cause a different sound, yet not to its advantage.

After going the route with complete galvanic isolation as it’s recommended (with an EtherRegen having own Super3, Finisar SFPs, Sonore OpticalModule Deluxe V2 as Fiber media converter also with own Super3) this helped to some extent. Finally there is a better approach to an overall solution: the MUON Pro filter. This is awesome and I hardly couldn’t believe how much it improved everything. See if you can hear some in your system.

2 Likes
2812

@Markus_Hubner

Thanks for the tips! This review of the MUON bundle ($1800 euros) agrees with you:

https://the-ear.net/review-hardware/network-acoustics-muon-streaming-system-streaming-filter-ethernet-cable/

I am cautious of tipping the scales too far in the transparent direction. I’ve done that in the past and large swaths of beloved non-audiophile CDs became unlistenable.

In your experience, did the MUON make things too transparent?

2813

It’s much easier to find a Network Acoustics Muon advert on The Ear site than it is to find a bad review of any kind. Make of that what you will…

1 Like
2814

@killdozer
That’s true of nearly all review sites and magazines. They rarely if ever publish negative reviews because they depend upon those same companies for advertising and review samples.

But no negative reviews are not necessarily a sign of a dishonest review. Hopefully the reviewer is publishing a truthful report and not just being a shill. In theory, if a reviewer, like Steve Guttenberg, doesn’t like a product he simply returns it to the manufacturer and does not publish a review. Fair enough.

I see no advantage to a reviewer in being dishonest to the point of speaking glowingly about a lame product. They would lose the trust of their audience.

Most products have return policies. I use reviews as a guide for what to audition. The home trial period gives me time to form my own, first hand opinion. If the product is lame, no worries, just send it back and take that reviewer with a grain of salt.

We do not have, and will never have an audiophile equivalent to Consumer Reports who acquires products independently, accepts no advertising and will freely publish negative reviews.

That’s simply the law of the jungle.

1 Like
2815

Au contraire, though it’s not perfect. I suspect you’ll not be a fan :wink: :

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/

4 Likes
2816

I absolutely do understand your concerns - and I have gone that path also before :slight_smile:
For example even with very advanced galvanic isolation/ fiber media converter setups things may seem to be very clear/clean - but overall will sound somewhat artificial/ clinical, lacking organic sound / instruments; decay, depth etc

So I am glad to say that after a lot of time, spendings but interesting learnings - the Muon Pro (which is an improvement to the previous Muon version) finally got me considerably ahead. And my streaming chain never sounded that good (huge step forward).

You summarized perfectly how things are on the Internet and it’s the approach of listening/comparing and then deciding.

1 Like
2817

@killdozer
Haha, yes, I’m very familiar with Amir and am, to a degree, a fan. However, I’m also aware that Amir is pushing an “only measurements matter” ideology, one that I’m not entirely in agreement with.

In my wee opinion, I appreciate his reviews that double check a manufacture’s measurements. His assault on the PS Audio Power Plant was well done.

But I question his fundamentalist belief that subjective listening tests can only be deceptive. Even if, for the sake of argument, we agree with his position, I don’t think it matters. If someone perceives a benefit, even if that benefit is not scientifically provable, what difference does that make? If an enthusiast perceives a benefit, then, for their music enjoyment experience, there is a benefit - even if that benefit is a delusion.

We’re discussing audio enjoyment by mostly a bunch of well off people with more dollars than sense. It’s not cancer research where scientific precision is needed.

The entire high end stereo experience is essentially a hallucination. It sounds like a band is there, but there is no band.

Therefore I suggest that subjective listening tests, in context of audio, are even more important than scientific measurements. If perception yields enjoyment, what difference does it make if that enjoyment is a result of real things??

And that’s what Amir’s scientific mind misunderstands.

That said, I appreciate his willingness to question and hold company’s feet to the fire.

3 Likes
2818

I concur. There’s more to audio (and life) than measurements.

I’m a big believer in blind testing for this reason, though I would agree that it’s not always practical. If something doesn’t pass a blind test, it’s useless to me. Placebo benefits are indeed a delusion. While there is logic to the argument, and the placebo effect is real, it still feels like lying to yourself to me. Blind testing also helps get a handle on the magnitude of any improvement.

I suspect scientific precision is still pretty important in reality :wink:

2 Likes
2819

@killdozer
Unfortunately, the human mind is a very unreliable companion.

Harvard has done studies where they give patients a placebo and tell them it’s a placebo, and they still see positive medical results. Placebos have power because of how the human mind works.

My larger point is that this hobby is about the enjoyment of a delusion. Therefore, rather than being a hinderance, delusion is actually fundamental to our enjoyment.

Sympathy for delusions :star_struck:

6 Likes
2820

Thanks for sharing your detailed networking explorations. Given the amount of time and money you’ve put into that, I’m curious to hear about your streamer explorations and how the ZS compares to other streamers you’ve tried.

3 Likes
2821

Your welcome! I really would say the ZS is likely the best performance for the money out there. One of the big advantages is that you can very easily upgrade its performance by a iFi iPower Elite or a Farad Super3. In contrast to a LUMIN U2 Mini or others for example you would need to do a manual upgrade and breaking warranty.

To go up in a (noticeable) improvement (which to some extent is always system dependent how many & which components/interference/noise etc there is) you would need to invest a multiple of the price of the ZS.
There are players like top Grimm MU1 or up to top line of LINN that are really amazing and it’s interesting to see how they exploit the potential of streamers - but that is heavy investment.

The ZS is a great allround streamer with nice features (and also a ROON optimized mode :slight_smile: ) and what is important filtering of RCA & USB connection.

3 Likes
2822

@Markus_Hubner

Very interesting! I’m curious how the SOTM-200 Ultra Neo compares to the ZS? I believe the Neo has a USB re-clocker built in. It costs $1200 and can run on either a 9 or 12 volt Farad.

1 Like
2823

I haven’t compared this one but there is a review (admittedly it’s 4 years old and there has been a lot of development in the streamer market) SOtM sMS-200Ultra NEO streamer and networked audio interface - YouTube which might be useful.

3 Likes
2824

The adventure continues. The second Farad Super3 (12V) arrived. For some unknown reason, the original 9V used for the W4S Recovery gets upset if the Recovery is connected to the ZS via USB, even with a separate 12V powering the ZS. Something odd about that combination causes the 9V to frequently go into recovery mode.

Thus I’m abandoning the USB route. The primary purpose was to play DSD files in Roon. But I have other ways to play DSD outside of Roon.

I am keeping the 12V Super3 for the ZS, and have acquired an Audio Art coax cable. It replaces a generic Canare coax that came with a CD player some 20 years ago.

The combination of the Farad + ZenStream + Audio Art coax sounds tremendous, particularly via Tidal Connect.

1 Like
2825

There’s obviously something wrong with the 9V PSU if it fails like that. I would try to solve that first instead of changing from the superior USB connection to coaxial.

1 Like