No appropriate error-messages from Roon

There are many such reports scattered throughout the community with the skipping problem, regardless if new or old computer, with Tidal or own mediathek, with good or bad network, with powerful server or poor server.

Its a guess what could be the reason as long es there are no appropriate error-messages from ROON to allocate the problem to be “upstream” or “downstream” or within the core!

@danny

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/system-architecture-comments-a-tale-of-3-systems/156697/26?u=felix_p

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Hey @Felix_P, could you help us by providing more detailed information about your system? In some other posts scattered around the community you’ve mentioned a 2011 Mac Mini, but I don’t recall you mentioning how much RAM it has or if it has a spinning drive – can you let me know? And how large is your library?

We’re also missing some key details about your network. How is everything wired up, and what networking gear are you using? Please be as specific and detailed as possible. For example, “My Mac Mini is connected to a TP-Link managed switch, and my router is an Asus RT-AC68U Router. My connection speed is 150Mbps download, 35Mbps upload, 20ms ping.”

Once we’ve got more detailed information from you, I’m sure we’ll be able to provide better guidance on a way forward.

P.S. Please keep your replies about skipping tracks limited to this thread, that way we have all of your information in one place and can better assist you. Thanks!

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Hi Kevin! I am happy that you are giving attention to this and ask me specific questions. I am pleased to provide you with all respective info for that case:

A) The problem is skipping titles from the OWN mediathek after a few seconds and jumping to the next and next. It is, “endless” it’s a loop. It also can happen that the playing in the queue stops somewhere without any command.

B) Setup: Macmini mid 2011 (16GB RAM), Samsung 1TB (hosting both the core as well as the mediathek), TP-Link AX1500 WiFi6-Router, 1GBit Ethernet. Bluesound node2i as Output. Both the Roon-Core as well as the Roon-App as well as the Node 2i are connected by the LAN, not WiFi.
The size of the Library is 2880 albums and the 23436 titles (the Mediathek is an i-Tunes Library-scheme).

C) Oberservations:
Before I had for 4 months TIDAL: I also had skipping of titles when the INTERNET-SPEED was not enough for downloads. In this case I got an error-message about slow download.
Upon starting playing a queue or an album this problem can occur with a likelihood of some 5%. This problem now most likely sits WITHIN the Roon-core, I do not get ANY error message. In case the downstream side (music-playing) would be cut, the system would deliver an errror-message that there is no output-device. This is not the case. So the output-side seems o.k. The input (upstream-side) - as I am using the own mediathek - has nothing to do with the Internet. The problem in my opinion could be
a) a communication-error between the App and the core (unlikely for me) or
b) a “confusion” within the Roon-Core on the Mac-Mini, turning into a “skipping loop”. The Mac Mini is solely dedicated to music-streaming, no other tasks, no other programs.

D) Overal performance: The performance - without these problems occurring - is “very good”, no complaint at all. It handles waitlists in whatever length, searches etc. Its just this occasional “getting crazy” without any error message! I looks like that the titles occasionally cannot be STARTED in the mediathek.

Hope this info helps ROON to understand the problem and to embed respective Error-Messages to confine the problem.

Felix

SSD or HDD?

SSD Evo 860

This kind of problem is reported from many Roon-clients for a) the own mediathek, b) Tidal c) ROON-Radio-Listeners.
I do not think it is a problem of configuration and network, but rather a bug in “staging” the next title, despite it is available.
I am curious on the answer of @kevin

@danny @enno

Danny, there is a PROBLEM out there, not stupid clients!!! Many customers cannot enjoy their music without annoying skipping! Is this so difficult to understand for you?
It is stealing customers their time, be letting them discuss for weeks or months now on this issue without ROON taking this issue serious.
At least I would expect that ROON would generate proper error-messages making this issue traceable! Defending approach is very poor reaction! ACT on this subject appropriately, which is beginning to destroy ROONS reputation!

Enno, please would you be so kind to take care on this issue to get a step ahead towards resolving this? Many thanks!

@noris @kevin
Many clients address the same issue to different support-staff-members. I suggest ROON to team up and to urge the development team to come up with appropriate error messages which allows to trace back the problems, which go on now for weeks for many clients.

Hi @Felix_P

Thanks for providing additional information about this!

Does the same behavior occur if you play to System Output of the Core machine instead of the Bluesound?

Assuming it does, the next time this happens, please make a note of the time that this occurs as well as the track that was playing, then use the directions found here and send us over a set of logs using a shared Dropbox link (or any other file sharing service).

Thanks!

Kevin, Dylan:

My System-Output on Mac-Mini more or less has NO speakers. I cannot test it there.

Just the recent case: 2 USERS: one USER wants to play on Pulse Mini, the choosen Music does not start. No error message, all output devices right. I had to restart the Roon-Core, then everything goes for the normal immediately.

In any case: It’s the core which does not play or skip titles. Why ROON does not improve it’s Error-Messages? I cannot predict on when this happens again and if I have time to collect all the protocols. As there are still numerous other bugs in 1.8 too I do not want to become involved in product-development. Please have an understanding for that. On the other hand I expect a program to run flawless for which I have paid several hundred Dollar.

Another proposal: Please let me downgrade to 1.7, if the problem does not reoccur we know it’s 1.8. Where I can download the last Version of 1.7 which was running very stable.

Bildschirmfoto 2021-04-27 um 18.45.28

@Felix_P FYI: you can play to System Output of your Core (Mac) even if it has no speakers. You can check in your queue afterward which tracks were skipped. I can understand why it is helpful for support to know whether the skipping also occurs when playing to system output (in my case it does). The Roon team needs to get to the bottom of this recurrent problem by analyzing the many individual issues subscribers are having and by finding out how Roon can make those “individual” issues a lot less likely. The more information we can provide them, the sooner and the better things can get fixed.

Unfortunately already an endless story for many users.
I want to be helpful with info, yet I want to draw a clear borderline to being a product-tester. A program which is well-done has appropriate error-messages. The incident of being not being able to play must cause an appropriate error-message.
I most likely have a dozen of different cases for skipping and stopping and I cannot run through all variants to locate the error without any appropriate messages giving a hint in which section of the system the error occurs.
Different people from service are discussing this issue with different users, the service seems to be left alone. I am missing management attention on this like many other users too!

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Thanks for the follow-up, @Felix_P.

The next time this happens please make a note of the time it occurs, the track that skips, and then use the directions found here and send us over a set of logs using a shared Dropbox link (or any other file sharing service).

Thanks!

@vova @danny @rebeka

I think that this issue of “playback skipping” of Playback Skipped for what root-cause ever finally has gotten high-level attention at Roon also with build 795 and is not pushed back to clients only. Thank you! One shall be aware that this problem does not occur with Tidal only but also in some other cases (in my set-up it with my own Music Library without any interference from an external streaming source.

My suggestion still is to establish more appropriate ERROR-messages which much better allow to trace back the root-cause of such a problem. It is frustrating to just hear the music skipping or stopping without ANY message! If “the engine” of a car stops, I want to know if it has run hot or has no fuel or whatever… ==> Would be great to hear from ROON if this suggestion will have a consideration in one of the next builds!

@dylan @kevin @Peter_Kuehnel

The suggestion for approriate error-messages has been posted 1 month ago and I want to close the thread now.
This is not a ‘service-question’ rather than a proposal.

What I would expect to hear from ROON: a) Yes, we like the idea, thank you, we will implement it in 2021 or b) No, we cannot do it or do not want to do it because of…

Hey @Felix_P, since we just fixed the underlying issue in our most recent update, you should no longer experience skips without an error message. If it happens again though, don’t hesitate to let us know.

And just a side note, no need to @ team members in your posts – We keep a close eye on this category and already receive notifications for new posts. Thanks!

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