Oh, OK. I didn’t know. But, dude, you’re the one who brought Darko into this discussion. You’re the one who mentioned the “fact” (your word) that some people hear differences.
But I’ll shut up now. We’re both just flapping our gums, anyway.
I am not going to read the whole thread…but, if you are still not embracing the “Roon Core --> Roon Endpoint --> DAC” model, you are not getting the best Roon has to offer.
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There isn’t a difference, he’s using a little controversy to generate clicks. I went down the Audirvana is better road too, after spending loads of wasted time with A B tests, I finally concluded I was imagining it.
So, you’re saying that if I don’t invest in the Roon platform, including purchasing additional equipment, I can’t expect it to sound as good as Audirvana. 
I did set up a RopieeeXL pie as an endpoint.
I completely understand what he is doing - it’s not difficult to figure out. Again - my bad for even mentioning him…
And I’m not imagining it. 
No. I am saying that if you use a computer directly connected to your DAC over USB, you are at the mercy of the electrical noise the computer is putting out over USB. That will vary with the software running on the computer. That is why, even though Roon and Audirvana can be bit perfect, they can sound different.
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I was just kidding. I understand.
If an audio streamer has a bit perfect output option, then the very definition of this is that the output bitstream is an exact copy of the original bitstream at the source.
If Roon and Audirvana can both produce bit perfect playback, then their respective output streams must be identical.
Two identical bitstreams played through the same DAC will cause the same analog output and therefore sound identical.
Therefore it is impossible for Roon and Audirvana to sound different in bit exact modes.
So we turn to noise… Is it possible that the output bitstreams are logically identical but one is noisier due to CPU load, Enet transformers, USB drivers/cables, etc. Maybe, but I really doubt it. Digital transmissions typically either work perfectly or fail with catastrophic errors (i.e, large obvious glitches or drop outs) You are never going to hear just a little loss of clarity, or hiss, or loss of dynamic range. That happens in the analog domain.
So my thoughts are that these two streaming services provide identical outputs unless one of the following applies:
(1) They have different source material (Different digital originals)
(2) They are lying, and are not implementing bit perfect playback.
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This is a fallacy and snake oil. Any DIGITAL output you are using (USB/HDMI, ethernet etc), does not care about your “computer noise”. These protocols have their own correction build in. Bits either get through or not. Its not a gray area. Its zeros and ones. Example, lets take HDMI that carries digital video data. It shows the picture 100% or not when you use a certain cable. If there is too much “noise” as you put it, and the error correction cannot transfer the bits bitperfect any longer, you will either have a blank screen or it shows very clearly digital artefacts and or / picture is blinking in and out. Its not going more “fuzzy” gradually like analog.
I have Audirvana and currently trialing Roon.Best feature “audio wise” i find is the Volume levelling “Auto” and the fact that it does this after converting to 64bit. I find Audirvana’s replygain implementation lowers highly dynamically compressed tracks too much (LUFS -23) is too quit for me, so i like you can select -14 in Roon. If both programs would have their volume leveling / DSP stuff OFF and playing the same files at original Bit/Hz and bypassed the OS mixer…they should sound identical (and they are). So for me, the volume levelling feature and Roon radio already is enough for me to think about getting a yearly sub to Roon.
I’m using pretty quiet desktop PC (Hackintosh), running 24/7 in the living room and its video and audio is hooked with HDMI to a Denon AVR from there to my speaker setup and to 75" TV as computer display for example.
I made the the Roon’s server core to run as a background service in my MacOS (as LaunchAgent) and control software separately so it doesn’t matter if i logout from the OS or shutdown the Roon client, the music still keeps playing as long as the OS is running, or restarts automatically after reboot, which is nice.
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It’s not about whether or not the bits get through properly. They do 99.9999% of the time. It’s what comes along with those bits that is the problem. If you think “digital is digital” and don’t think there is any potential for sound degradation because of electrical noise, you are quite wrong.
Bits are bits, the power supply/ground path carries any “noise”. There are special boutique USB cables (for audiophiles of course) with pins 1 and 4 (power +/-) disconnected. Data pins, 2 and 3, are balanced.
Aaaaand… we’re off!
Do you have any evidence for this statement you’ve repeated quite often now? I’ve been looking for it for years, and have failed to find any. I’d love to see it.
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Haha. Lets also forget the rest of the “noisy” 99% digital chain whats comes before his streamer / DAC: The INTERNET ! Its good thing that the whole internet is made from “low noise” routers and cables 
And those are 100% snake oil too
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$3000 streamer better than $300 streamer because my brain tell me. Roon $700 better than Audirvana lol.
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just if Audirvana was THAT BASIC…
There are only two things that can affect digital audio transport. Jitter and bit-errors. Bit errors can be corrected if there is some forward error correction in the protocol otherwise it will potentially become an audible clip or artefact. Bit errors are very uncommon.
There are also quantisation errors in the Sigma-delta transforming but thats up to the DAC. The better the DAC the less error.
Not true. Electrical noise from power, ground, and on data lines are real issues.
Speed_Racer: What does the elctrical noise create? Bit errors.
For example USB isynchronous transfers of digital audio. There are no resends there like in BULK transfers. The loss is detected through CRC calculations but there is not time for resends since its realtime. In the worst case clips and pops will be heard but most probably slight signal distortions will take place.
But again, they are very rare even in cheaper equipment and I assure you a better(read more expensive) cable wont magically re-create those lost data-bits.