Onkyo is bankrupt

Or something like XS 8500 from Nubert, which handles eight channels.
I don’t like this “evolution”, but times have changed and it seems, that all the technical equitements must be become smaller or unvisible or really fancy.

I think Denon/Marantz will have a firmer grip on the AVR market with Onkyo gone. Maybe they have to realise that, with most high-end products these days, it’s a niche market with relatively low volumes.

I’m still using my ancient Sony STR-DA5500ES. However, it works well with my SCD-XA5400ES, especially for surround SACD’s with the HATS system.

According to this story, Voxx and Sharp will continue to make Onkyo-branded A/V equipment.

Hi Michael,
I own the Goldenear 3D Array XL soundbar paired with 2 10’ subs. Soundbar needs an external amp. Can only speak for myself but it sounds fantastic. Designed by Sandy Gross. $2000 for the XL.

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Kim I would have to say that sounds amazing!! (but you already said it sounds fantastic)
External amp, makes that a very interesting idea.

I have great difficulty getting my head around leaving my 10 speaker set up for a sound bar, but the future need to simplify will drive that. Been very happy with Yamaha, Pioneer and then three Onkyo amps over the last 30 years or so, and progress on soundbars seems to be good. I will try and drag it out another year or more if I can. Goldenear seem to get rave reviews whatever they make

No, you don’t. Sonos and Bluesound do just fine without one. Read my previous post.

There’s a ‘V’ in AVR. Since AVRs are not only about sound, soundbars are not exactly a replacement. If you have two or more A/V sources, it makes sense to have one unit to do all the switching and processing. Also, at least for now, and as far as I know, soundbars are not working as well in larger rooms.

Then there’s another feature I like about AVRs: multi-zone. (Are there soundbars with a zone 2 output BTW?) One of my AVRs has cable TV and game console in the main zone and a Roon endpoint (RPi) in zone 2. The two zones can be powered independently. I could use a soundbar for video, but then I’d need a separate amp for the passive music speakers. I could also use the receiver as a digital input for Roon, but then CEC would power up my projector when I want to listen to music (I kind of hate CEC, but I need it for ARC) and I also wouldn’t have a display.

What high-end? Most (if not all) of their AVR products belong to the entry level consumer electronics category. Roughly “translated” to stereo gives me a sub 500 $ integrated amplifier with ADC/DAC capabilities, products usually also available from the brands you mentioned, that no “high-end” customer cares to look at.

My Samsung TV is a far better video processor than any AVR. With 3 HDMI inputs, I have all the switching I need for an Apple TV, a Sony BD player, and a Chromecast device. HDMI ARC or TOSLINK audio out to the sound bar carries multi-channel sound out to the sound bar for all sources. In my case, a Sonos Playbase and the surround Sonos:1 speakers on the sides.

See my Sonos setup above. I can have my TV’s sound output go to any number of rooms, if I so choose, via Sonos. Oh, and all of my Sonos speakers work great with Roon even in groups.

Although I expect all video devices to do a decent job at video processing nowadays, that’s still a blanket statement.

I have a cable box, a media streamer, a BD player and a game console in my living room. That makes 4. Also, my TV is on the wall and all its wires run through a conduit in the wall. There’s no way I can fit that many cables through that.

The way I understand it, ‘multi-zone’ is the ability to play different sources in different zones.

As a personal preference, I like dedicated devices. Ideally, the TV is just a monitor, sources are just transports and there’s one central component - the AVR - orchestrating them.

If these AVR’s aren’t high-end, I don’t know what is!

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Start with an AV pre-amplifier (for example: Bryston SP4, Krell Foundation 4K, Meridian Reference 861V8, …) and add a rack full of amplifiers (for example: Bryston 9B³, Krell Duo 125 XD, …).
But you may have a point in the way that most high-end brands aren’t into multi-channel audio at all. Even the products I listed above may be considered as medium range at best by high-end customers. I don’t know, as I’m definitely lacking the money for those high-end products where a complete setup comes at the cost of a house. :upside_down_face:

To stay in context to the cited part of my post, let’s make the test: Are there any Roon users here, that consider themself as high-end customer and use integrated amplifiers like a PMA-600NE for their main stetup?

Not only is it a blanket statement, it sure sounds a lot like “My Beats Studio Pro are the best-sounding headphones money can buy”.

You are correct. I very frequently use our Living Room/Kitchen AVR to play TV with surround sound inside, and Roon on the outdoor speakers by the pool. It also has a third independent zone I don’t currently use.

A minor quibble. Sandy Gross doesn’t design anything, in the way that Andrew Jones designs Elac (e.g.).

Sandy Gross approves (or rather, approved, since he’s now retired) what his un-named engineers design.

BTW - I have several GoldenEar speakers. Great value for the money.

With my household-wide Sonos system, I can play a different “source” to each and every speaker, though some I have setup as stereo pairs w/ subs. With a TV source, I can bridge this with a Sonos sound bar; with an analog source, I can bridge that with a Sonos Hub (I personally don’t bother).

All without any wires, other than power cords. I don’t see how an AVR can match that flexibility.

Well, he certainly has no engineering degree, so yes I agree. But as a cofounder of Polk and DefTech, he must know a little bit about speaker design?
Quote from 2016 Interview about the beginnings of Polk Audio:

Gross:" Most of the product concepts were mine—as at Definitive [Technology] and GoldenEar [Technology]. Basically, I provide an elaborate napkin sketch, pretty detailed in terms of drivers, technologies, dimensions, and so forth. This then goes to engineering—at Polk, originally Matt. There was, and is, a lot of back-and-forth."

Or maybe he’s just good at describing what he wants engineers to design for him. Whatever his role, we agree the speakers sound great!

From the horse’s mouth -

Knowing what to ask for is a skill in its own right. What’s that Henry Ford quote? “If I’d asked my customers what they wanted, they’d have said a faster horse.”

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Upgraded from a very good sound bar to marantz sr7012 avr and dali opticon surrounds,massive difference,it dosent even compare,but not everyone is wanting this setup,soundbars are good and easy to setup

I wish I still had the option of separate speakers but those days are gone. My soundbar just can’t achieve L-C-R separation like individual speakers, even with crosstalk cancelling tech built in. Still, I can get good audio results using surround channels and DSP,. The perfect setup with a listening “sweet spot” just doesn’t exist for me anymore.