Optimum network configuration

[gasman]

Hi

A question for all you network professionals out there if I may?

How do I segment my LAN in order to have Roon effectively working on its own subnet separate from all the other network traffic (streaming TVs, kids on XBox etc etc)?

My monolithic network is part wired, part wireless by necessity and now that Roon requires an always-on network connection it has all slowed down dramatically

Searching for tracks is measured in minutes and quite often the gap between tracks in a playlist is minutes too. However, I have one endpoint that connects directly to the core and this is responsive and near immediate, much like I recall Roon being way back when

From this I deduce that it’s the network rather than an underpowered core that’s the issue

I have it my head that I should be able to segment my LAN such that Roon traffic exits separately to all the other stuff going on, but I may be wrong

Can someone point me in the right direction please? I’m not looking for a full how-to, just a broad outline of what I’m trying to achieve and I’ll happily research the rest

Be as technical as you need, I’m keen to improve my networking skillz

Roon core runs on Debian if that helps

Thank you all

[evert_kjellgren]

You can always create a separate vlan specifically for Roon. Place the core, endpoints and remotes in this. It can be used both wired and wireless, just use the same vlan id for the roon wired ports and wireless ssid.

[Graeme_Finlayson (The Mad Scientist)]

Can you give us a run down of your network setup? From incoming internet connection, through router, switch(es) to devices.

[Henry_McLeod (Henry)]

Roon won’t run on a subnet separate from any of its component parts. If you can get them all on the same subnet you may be able to run Roon on its own together with WiFi on the same subnet.
In my main listening area I use one switch that provides internet/streaming. Local files are hosted on the core on another input. And finally the endpoint Roon Bridge is on another input. You can apply physical isolation (WiFi link, fibre or both!). And no traffic other than that required to service Roon need traverse that isolation.

[gasman]

My LAN is essentially spread across 2 rooms

Room 1
Modem/router/DHCP
x2 switches
x1 HQP/microrendu based endpoint
All are connected via GB ethernet

Room 2
Roon Core
x1 endpoint connected to core with USB (TV)
x1 ‘high end’ endpoint
All are connected with GB ethernet

Rooms 1 and 2 are ‘bridged’ via a wireless extender

All remotes connect wirelessly

The biggest delays are experienced when listening to the HQP/microrendu endpoint in Room 1 (which is also my main listening area at present)

I could ‘bridge’ Rooms 1 and 2 with ethernet over mains but I’m guessing that will just add electrical noise

[gasman]

Will spend some time seeing if I can map that out

Thank you

[evert_kjellgren]

I have a hard time beleiving other traffic on the same subnet would affect Roon performance though… Switches only send traffic to the ports that are currently addressed. Have you checked memory and cpu load on your network gear?

[gasman]

Core is only device I can query those stats and CPU is <10% and Memory ~30%

[ipeverywhere]

KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid (or Keep It Stupid Simple)

This is commonly a design principle which yields the most “optimum” configuration. In my experience, with networks, the answer is always to throw bandwidth at it!

For wired networks this is straightforward. Big fast high packet per second switches to move data around with low latency and no congestion. In a lot of cases that means getting the routers out of the way as well but more on this later.

For wireless this is a trickier proposition. To get fast and low latency you need a denser concentration of APs (hardwired back-haul) but that means additional tuning so they overlap correctly.

So, lets look at your specific config and where you’ve introduced issues…

@gasman

Rooms 1 and 2 are ‘bridged’ via a wireless extender

@gasman

biggest delays are experienced when listening to the HQP/microrendu endpoint in Room 1

This is because you’ve, effectively, made this entire network segment wireless with the extender. Nothing in Room 1 is trying to talk to each other; its trying to talk to things in Room 2. Everything in Room 1 is, effectively, wireless except its worse than that because without direct access to the radio none of the wifi flow control can work properly.

What kind of bridge is this? Let’s try to fix this as a starting point. Most of these things will just fall over trying to handle all the broadcast and update traffic Roon requires.

As example… if you’re listening to an Qobuz stream with your microrendu its…

1. Roon to Qobuz to request the stream, over the bridge
2. Qobuz responds to Roon, over the bridge
3. Roon requests to start the stream, over the bridge
4. Qobuz starts streaming, over the bridge,
5. Roon sends the stream to the rendu, over the bridge
6. rendu sends updates to Roon about stream position, over the bridge
7. Roon sends updates to Qobuz about stream position, over the bridge

That’s a lot of “duplicate” for that little extender to be handling and, if you have overlapping wifi channels, its stomping on your other wifi networks at the same time. It’s possible to make this work at gigabit speeds… but I normally design point-to-point wireless type systems if this level of traffic is needed. Most Wifi 6 Mesh systems will handle this better as they will autotune (and possibly do channel bonding to increase capacity) the back-haul as well.

Ways to test… Run a long ethernet cable, as test, to get rid of the extender. OR Move the Core to the other room, turn off the extender, and see if the microrendu starts to behave more predictably.

[gasman]

That certainly makes sense, thank you

The extender is a BT HomeHub disc which will be familiar to those in the UK but pretty mysterious otherwise

I’ll dig out a lengthy Cat5 cable and see have a play

[ipeverywhere]

@gasman

BT HomeHub disc

What HomeHub version is this? The early ones are using technologies of an extinct era.

BT’s discs are going to be limited by the Hub itself as there were matched discs to the Hub technology. Great for signal strength… probably detrimental to the overall wifi performance. From a quick read the “SmartHub” stuff is significantly more modern and, could if implemented right, provide for a mesh (extenders) that won’t destroy overall performance when deployed.

One other thing I forgot to mention… At minimum get the Core wired to the Internet. When people say “core must be wired” this is really what they mean. There is a lot of Roon ↔ Internet/Roon Cloud traffic you want to keep wired and off of any wifi mesh / bridge / extender.

Let us know how the cat5 experiment goes.

[gasman]

Smarthub is one of the more up to date devices, but nevertheless 15m Cat6 on the way from Amazon

[Henry_McLeod (Henry)]

My main system connects to the world via a BT WiFi disc. But my hub is the latest Business Smart Hub 2 which is WiFi 6 enabled. I use a 5 port switch with connection to the disc, core and streamer connected by Ethernet. Response is snappy and the only delay I experienced was after an up time measured in weeks with a Windows based core. A reboot fixed that. I’ve never had issues with a ROCK core. My other endpoints are always wireless and they work OK but are not used for critical listening.
I do not (presently) use HQPlayer.

[gasman]

15m Cat6 pitched up and now snakes across the carpets and through the hallway (much to the poor wife’s displeasure)

Ta Da

Much improved

Right, now where’s my drill …

[gasman]

@ipeverywhere

At minimum get the Core wired to the Internet

Spot on advice, cheers