I have a 2 channel system. I have been working to get the bass right. I believe I have my speakers placed well, 5 ft into the room, equilateral triangle, and some room treatments (bass traps, diffusion and absorption panels). My issue - On some tracks, acoustic bass and low bass notes on acoustic guitar sound too strong, example Alan Taylor’s Traveler and Lyle Lovett’s Road to Ensenada. Other bass heavy tracks are fine. Not sure what frequencies need to be reduced. Somewhere between 30 and 300. I need to experiment more with PEq in roon (trying a custom hi pass curve or peak dip curve) but welcome any advice from anyone. Thanks!!!
You might be able to fix it with seating and speaker position (sounds like you have the freedom to properly locate speakers and add treatments…)
Using those tracks that give the bad effect on repeat…
Try moving your listening position around (I’ve done this in the past with an office chair on casters). It sounds like you’re sitting in a ‘peak node’ that you need to move away from
You could also try the sub crawl - but in your case, instead of the sub, put one (or both) of your speakers where you sit - then crawl around the ‘front’ of the room to listen where the speaker’s bass is most even - that’s where you start with your speaker placement
You may need to do this iteratively - speaker then seat then speaker then seat
There are a few ‘golden rules’ (made to be ignored or broken)
- ‘thirds’ speakers at 1/3 of room depth, seat at 2/3rds
- ‘5:8 Ratio’ speakers placed on a line drawn from the corner - 8 units into the room from the front and 5 units in from the side walls
- ‘78% width’ speakers in an equilateral triangle, the distance between tweeters ‘should’ be 78% of the distance between your ears and the tweeters
If it were me, I’d start all that by removing the existing treatment - and only add it back carefully to address specific residual issues
Finally, what I do, is put tape on the floor around where the speaker and seat positions are basically correct, then trial and error adjustments to fine tune. I go big at first e.g. move the speakers 150mm back, then return, the forwards, then return (hence tape) listening to the impact. You can quickly narrow down movements to 1cm, even 1mm
Note: much of this learned from Jim smith’s excellent ‘Get Better Sound’ book, well worth a few quid
Thanks for the detailed reply!!! I have tried some locations but not methodically as you highlighted. So will tru that. I am somewhat familiar with Smiths work via YouTube videos. I also thought of trying the long wall vs the current shorter wall. Another piece of info I didn’t mentioned prior is that I do have 2 subs to support my main stand mounts. However the bass issue is there with the subs turned on or off.
Oh, with one or two subs you introduce more points of failure
When you say the problem persists no matter if subs are used/turned on/deliver output or not please share your sub settings including you frequency response of your main speakers. As well as how you have integrated your subs with the amplifier. Do you use some DSP in the amplifier?
I have Dali Epicon 2 speakers that go down to 47
And 2 SVS 12” sealed SB 1000 subs
Sub cross over set at 42 and gain at 30 db
Okay, I strongly believe with 47 as the lower end of your mains 42 as SW crossover/LF is too low.
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How are your subs connected?
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First, turn off any DSP in roon or anywhere else. DSP/EQ is only the very last option.
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Try out crossover between 60 and 100 Hz for your subs. There should be some overlapping between mains and SW.
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Also check for any sub settings with the sub app.
Is there any settings in your amp or other device where you set some sub integration or crossover or something similar? Or do you set up your subs completely manually?
- You may start first with one sub only.
Unless your room is very big, I’d avoid the long front wall idea
I’d also say get the basic setup right, then bring the subs into play
They will help (in fact, should make it really sing) but they’re an augmentation
The ‘sub crawl’ mentioned above is a good technique
Once you’ve found the main speaker and seating position, add the subs and then you can work on their level and cross over in context
Thanks for the replies!!! I forgot to mention that I have no DSP or tone control on my system. I have the Marantz PM-10 amp, fully analogue. Only signal processing would be thru roon Muse. No sub out on amp, use speaker output L and R for stereo bass. Set subs thru SVS app which is very good. Your suggestion is interesting as I would think the overlap might worsen the bass issue, but I will try it. I have been following Paul McGowen, CEO of PS Audio, who suggests settings as I have, i.e. if you have good mains, let the mains do all the work and have the sub(s) just supplement what the mains can’t do.
My room is 15x30, and I am using the 15 wall as my front wall. Thanks for the info!!!
Usually sub crossover/LF is always set with an overlap to the mains.
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In the lower end of mains they usually don’t perform as heavy and as precise since it’s the lower weaker end.
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This weaker lower range of the mains shall be supported by a sub which is much more tuned to render such low frequencies.
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There’s no hard edge at each end of a frequency response range, not with mains and not with subs. Just google images for “speaker subwoofer crossover chart” and you can easily see what is meant by this.
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In general most mains cannot render the lower end in a desired way. That’s why most mains are not so called full range speakers ranging from 20 to 20,000Hz or wider. Their good performance starts at significantly higher frequencies than 20Hz.
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And yes, this lower end us to be supported or better replaced by a sub.
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If your subs are connected to your mains, can you limit the lower end of your mains?
Consider also how the material is mastered. I have run across the same issue on different material, and wish there was an option to create custom EQs and apply to specific program material that lies outside of the norms for most of the material I listen to.
My system is 3 way with subs, with DSP and individual amplifier for each driver in a fairly small room (about 12’ x 19’) In my case I am not overlapping the mains and subs and cross at 60Hz (the mains are capable of reproduction to 30Hz, but sound better in the lower mids if I don’t go that low.)
I have bass traps and quasi LEDE room treatment.
You may want to experiment with distance to the back wall particularly if you have some room treatment. (small adjustments)
Thanks for the advice!!!
Sorting out the bass response is an excellent strategy to improve the quality of sound.
It’s sounding like you don’t have a measurement mic? This is really essential. It’s a bit of outlay, but compared to the price of quality audio equipment, marginal extra spend. I can’t stress enough how much this outlay can help with accurately measuring the bass response in your room. Many recommend the Umik-1 mic and that’s what I use.
In room bass response at specific frequencies can be ±20db at the listening position, and there is no way of “ear balling” what the variation is. ±3db is probably a noticeable difference and you could drive yourself crazy trying to measure that variation by ear.
When you have the mic, you need software to determine what PEQ to use. REW is the standard go-to, but the iOS app Housecurve is far simpler to use and gives good results.
Try HouseCurve on a iOS device if you have one.
Have a read through the instructions and guides that @Greg_Wilding has written.
As it’s bass only you wish to tame, set the frequency range accordingly in the app. Several folks advised me to just test between 20Hz to 500hZ.
Also doing left and right channels separately is a good idea.
Many thanks for the reply
There are many recordings of tones in the bass region that you can listen to and measure on a phone (set to accurate response, no A,B, or C weighting adjust frequency response. This won’t be as accurate as a real measurement mic, but it can be useful to put a number on what you are hearing. Walk through tones from 40Hz (or lower if you wish) through about 200 Hz and write down measurements while listening.
Note that your room has reinforcing measurements: 7.5 ft, 15 ft standing waves predicted to be at 150 and 75 Hz. If your ceiling is 7.5 ft it gets worse.
I had similar issues with my 2.1 system and largely fixed the problem by setting a low pass filter in parametric eq reducing response at 75 Hz by a couple of dB - just experiment from the listening chair.
I have done the same on my main system -1.5dB at 50Hz and -0.5 at 90Hz and I was shocked at what and improvement it introduced. It just took a bit of tweaking and listening to different music
Zero reason to try to PEQ by ear in 2025…a Umik is cheap and REW is free. Even free or low cost phone apps can at least identify the frequencies that are peaking. Fixing the frequencies below 300 Hz will completely change your system for very little cost.
One observation - the specific track The Road to Ensenada at (I think, I used to have it memorized for testing!) 2:13, there are some of the lowest and most pronounced bass notes I’ve ever heard. Reproducing those cleanly and convincingly has always been a challenge. We can all blame (or applaud) Lee Sklar and the mastering for that one, I guess!