And sadly Roon thinks is acceptable in it’s forums. Well as long as they are consistent with their moderating then that is fine but I am sure if someone stereotyped “non-elite non-whites” it would be shut down very quickly.
What are you talking about?
EDIT: I think I misread your post. Yes, I do think that if someone put down a minority that would be widely condemned, and that’s why I was so shocked when the biased post got 3 likes. Bias against any group is inappropriate in my book.
I don’t think Roon supports any prejudice on their forums, but since it wasn’t a specific attack on one person, the mods then left the post alone. And as I said above, I don’t want it removed…I think it stands as a good reminder to all that bashing stereotypes is a mean thing to do. That is, unless the stereotype is audiophile
Where the elitism comes in here is when someone thinks that having a very expensive stereo renders their opinion about music, or sound, more credible. But I think that’s more of a male testosterone, mine is bigger than yours, type of thing, and not based on any racial or ethnic bias.
I’d make two observations:
Mature affluent folk of whatever gender or race have usually used their affluence to bend their immediate world to their taste, and are accustomed to having their own way in it. When they stumble into another world, they often act inappropriately at first. This usually gets fixed.
Some of the discussion in this forum (the demographic of which does seem to be largely as @Xekomi characterized them, perhaps somewhat impolitely) is entitled, in the (IMHO) worst way. Who would publicly admit to paying $20,000 for a pair of speakers so that they could “better” hear Fleetwood Mac or Iron Maiden, when Water Wells For Africa tells us that same amount could provide clean water and hygiene for 5,000 people?
is this facebook? This is a disgusting conversation that does not belong here. Why not just stop it! most of us are here to enjoy meaningful conversations about our audio kits and how we can improve them. why on God’s green earth is anyone continuing this bull#%$^?
A post was merged into an existing topic: Bye Roon, why i am not renewing my subscription
I read you loud and clear. This is the way I assuage my conscience -
According to Water Wells for Africa, building a well costs $8000 -
Water Wells for Africa passes the test -
I put it on my list.
Colour of skin, age or money - what has it to do with enthusiasm and and even more loving music and its reproduction.
I’ll don’t get it …
I’ve been a software executive for 20+ years. This is the world everyone in this business lives in.
Mmph… Some strange comments in this thread.
Aaaaaaanyways… Customers complaining about products that don’t deliver what the advertisement promises aren’t acting out of a sense of entitlement. They are acting out of a sense of betrayal for lack of a better word.
Why betrayal instead of disappointment? Because if a vendor keeps boasting and doesn’t live up to the boast, it leaves the customer with a sense of not being taken seriously. Remember: the customer pays! Terms of service may be worded as non commitally as you like, the paying customer has based his/her expectations on the marketing blurb. Besides: the typical “we promise nothing” US-style terms of service may well fly in the US, in Europe they are considered as bad form in the best of cases and they can even be considered as void when the CYA level is unreasonably high. Caveat emptor is not a superseding legal rule in Europe.
It’s a communication thing. I have a love-hate relationship with Roon, as most of the community members know. I am also a Celt and we take our boasts very seriously. Put up or shut up is the adage here. Can’t put up? Then pipe down or get called out on it.
Such is the price of doing business. Many of us here seem to be business owners or managers. So we ALL know that if you promise one thing and deliver another, you get chewed out by the client. That is your own fault. Promise something realistic and deliver on your promise and you will get satisfied customers. Deliver just a bit more than you promised and you will get rave reviews and loyal customers.
So it’s not entitlement, it’s not childishly throwing a tantrum, it’s normal customer behavior.
What specifically is not being delivered that the advertisement promises? Is this about satisfaction (which we know and mostly accept can’t be guaranteed) or some claim of functionality not actually delivered?
The OP was unhappy with the accuracy of metadata. OK.
I think the strength of Roon is the metadata and how it can be used, even in it’s imperfect state.
Its just human nature. There is going to be a distribution of how people view this. The question, I think, is how much resource do you put into satisfying the tail of the distribution curve? If the OP wants to express their concern, they have every right to.
Let me try to word this in a way that won’t get anyone’s knickers in a twist (probably a futile effort, but what the hey ):
Roon advertises this:
Roon looks at your music and finds photos, bios, reviews, lyrics, and concert dates, and makes connections between artists, composers, performers, conductors, and producers.
What you get is a searchable, surfable magazine about your music.
Roon understands your content
Music lovers have content from many sources, often acquired over years of collecting.Roon identifies >your music, then enhances it with the latest metadata.
And this isn’t just for your local files, it works for content from TIDAL too!
Roon does this to some extent, but to a far lesser extent than the blurb would have you believe. It fails miserably on Belgian music for instance.
This might not be a big issue for most customers, but it is a big issue if you’re a Belgian customer. The same will probably apply to other, lesser known sources of music.
It also applies to classical music. Yes, yes, I know… Classical music is a rat’s nest to catalogue, but no-one can state that classical music is a niche. It’s a large and very diverse body of music that will never go away.
Then you get the time honoured defence (mostly from Roon devotees) that goes something like this: “It isn’t Roon’s fault, they depend on third party sources for the metadata”.
Though this might be true, the customer doesn’t get what is promised so boldly. It’s not the “promised” part that gets customer’s crows, it’s the “boldly” part.
I’ve been in business for over thirty years now and though intellectually I understand that a bit of exaggeration is necessary to generate business, morally - yes, I know this is a big statement - it grates.
I would prefer a little nuance. A caveat for the customer. An honest statement that clearly says: “we source our information from third parties and as such we cannot guarantee your music and the information about your music will be correct or even present.”
Preferably not in a hard to find disclaimer or in terms of service.
It’s a personal hang up…
You are right, I’m Caucasian, middle aged (53.5), middle class, income 100k and i have worked bloody hard to get there and i dont care if anyone doesn’t like it.
I’m polite, respectful but dislike prejudice.
THIS! RIGHT! HERE!
Nothing new. Just with the invention of “the internet” where everyone big and small has a voice, it’s now plainly laid out for all to see. I abhor hearing these sort of things, too, previously being in the software industry. Of course, squeaky wheel (read: higher paying clients) gets the grease…
In reference to original post…
I see two things happening here:
Roon is subscription model. Opposite of that is pay once and get something in return and maybe to get something different or more in return I pay again. On the pay once model if the thing I got in return becomes less value to me than the personal investment to use it I just walk away. The subscription model, however, forces a constant re-evaluation of the value of my subscription. It’s easy to decide that something which was once “WOW” is now “ho-hum” and I walk away.
Roon is early software, early adoption, and takes a fair bit of “personal investment” to use. This creates an emotional attachment to the product which is hard to let go of. Normally, without an emotional attachment, you’d just walk away. But, with an emotional attachment, people will go through (although not exactly the correct way to state it) a period of grief before letting go. One of the stages of grief is bargaining. And, hence, you see plenty of posts where people have made the decision to walk away but, because they are emotionally attached, they play the “bargaining” game asking for “the one thing” that will allow them to stay.
Roon should stay focused on their roadmap. People need coping stills to walk away from software and that software’s community. If Roon’s roadmap is flawed then competing services will win and the entire community will shift together.
I’ll also add 3) those bargaining threads get long because of the fear that the community will shrink. Those still invested in the software and community want to help that person stay. It’s a really enduring goal and provides a great feedback loop for the personal investment / attachments one feels towards the software. But, again, it’s just software. It’s OK if others stop using it.
Oh you get it. You observations and conclusion is spot on. Kudos!
Rudy, I appreciate what you’re conveying here. People do vote with their choices and their dollars. That said Roon has been a godsend to my enjoyment of music, and as you said they do provide a forum for feedback and often respond to what folks are wanting. I think one of the challenges for any business now, especially in the high end digital arena is that there are a lot of sophisticated end users who are very demanding. That’s ok, because it does challenge everyone to push forward. However, sometimes I find it’s good to step back and remember what has already been accomplished, the enjoyment derived and just be grateful. When I started with moving my collection to digital storage a decade ago I mused about wanting to pick up the albums, know who was playing what, who engineered it and when it was recorded. Roon does that well, it also provides a great sounding platform that works with many different set-ups and it organizes a collection of thousands of albums.
Not to be too obtuse, but I don’t get the grateful part.
Roon sells a product, I pay for it. I’m not entirely happy with the product but I keep paying for it.
Who should be grateful to whom here?