Does volume levelling work on Qobuz tracks? I do not see the soundwave graph on Qobuz tracks but I do for ripped files so I am not sure if Roon ‘knows’ the Qobuz track.
If it does work on Qobuz tracks, does it matter if the song is actually in my library or not (sometimes I add a track to a playlist but do not import the track to my library)?
If I am playing a playlist with sources from different albums, what is the best option between ‘Auto’, ‘Track’ and ‘Album’ on volume levelling? I do not actually understand the difference between these options even though the Roon help page tries to explain.
Yes. It doesn’t have the wave but the leveling info comes from Qobuz
Therefore, no, it doesn’t matter
Look at the signal path when playing and you will see what Roon does with the leveling
Eventually it is a matter of preference but also what the playback scenario is (living room at home vs background music in a bar, for instance)
„Album“ takes the whole album into account. So if you listen to whole albums, they will have the same loudness on average. However, it does not change the relative loudness of tracks within an album. If a loud track follows a silent track within an album, this difference will be preserved.
„Track“ adjusts all tracks to the same loudness. Within an album this tends to be weird when listening at home. It is usually intended for playlists with tracks coming from different albums, but see below.
„Auto“ uses „Album“ setting when playing albums and „Tracks“ setting when playing playlists or individual tracks.
However, many people prefer „Album“ for playlists as well. I’m one of them. If, say, a picked guitar follows a rock band in a playlist, „Tracks“ adjusts them to the same loudness, and that’s weird at least when listening at home.
If the background is noisy, e.g., in the car or in a bar, „Tracks“ may make more sense to keep it always on the same audible level.
I’m not especially impressed with it; ‘old’ recordings which are typically quieter than new ones still play relatively quietly - to the point where I have to use the remotes volume control anyway
Yeah it’s not perfect (and can’t be). There’s always estimations and averaging.
Even with „Album“ leveling:
If an album recording is more compressed, like some modern albums or remasters sometimes are, they usually are louder on average or perceived like this.
An album with less compression and hence more quiet passages will still be perceived less loud on average or at least in the silent parts.
There’s no way to fix this except by dynamically compressing the album that is quieter, and nobody wants that.
In addition, there’s something like a „natural“ loudness for an album. A solo picked guitar should, in most cases, be less loud than a rock band or a symphony orchestra. (But not always, either. Michael Gira of Swans on solo acoustic guitar is actually „naturally“ as loud as a loud rock band, as visitors to his concerts can attest). And of course there’s current mood as a factor, too.
So, some manual volume control adjustments will remain necessary. I personally still use „Album“ leveling and reach for the remote when I want to - that’s still less often than without leveling. But it’s a choice everyone has to make individually.
(And @Duckworp, be aware that album leveling generally tends to adjust the volume level down, so with the same volume control setting on the amp it tends to sound subjectively worse. You have to control for that when comparing SQ)
6 Likes
Torben_Rick
(Torben - A Dane living in Hamburg - Roon Lifer)
5
I even have a lot of new albums where volume levelling is not working. Have tried “Auto”, “Album” and “Tracks”, but I to offen has to ajust with the volume control.
You will only see an amplitude graph with locally stored files, which Roon can do its analyzing on to produce the eye candy from.
That has nothing to do with volume leveling information, which is usually generated by the issuing labels and stored in file tags, ripped or streamed.
It’s always going to be a compromise, and never an absolute, as you can see by the few answers so far.
Just pick what feels organic to you and keep the remote handy for outliers.
Haha, as you can read here, it’s a hit and miss feature
I do use it, but have to keep the remote on hand. I know, for example, that my amp volume typically needs to be on ‘33’ for new LPs and ‘19’ for older stuff (19 being louder than 33)
Does that mean, track details show individual values and cause volume changes which happen to just not match your personal tastes, or does volume leveling not audibly change the relative loudness between tracks in your queue at all?
To be clear, it’s nigh on impossible to ever get a one size fits all solution, because we’re listening to an artistic expression, rather than consuming a EU standardized banana …
1 Like
Torben_Rick
(Torben - A Dane living in Hamburg - Roon Lifer)
9
You are missing the point. This is not a question about personal taste or EU!
I just want to listen to the same level of music, but with to many albums that is not possible. In many cases I have to turn the level up.
Does anyone know how Radio stations keep all their played tracks the same level? Especially Eclectic stations like BBC Radio 6 when mixing 80s tracks and modern tracks.
2 Likes
Torben_Rick
(Torben - A Dane living in Hamburg - Roon Lifer)
12
If it would be working intended I would not have to adjust volume level (decibel)
Using my dynamic range metering bridge it’s easy to see how i.e. Soma FM’s Groove Salad live radio station does it to produce the perfect flow of background ambient downtempo music, which we commonly stream while being busy with our daily routine:
Squash all tracks’ dynamic range to the same lowish ~3.5 loudness units according to EBU128, then volume level the resulting tracks to the same average loudness, and voila, nothing sticks out and it just fills the background to kill the silence without ever startling anyone with untoward peaks.
Since having many of that genre’s releases in my local library, and wanting to be just a bit more sustainable in not needlessly streaming ever the same programs over the internet, thus wasting additional resources, I had Roon generate and serve a facsimile and you know what?
Even with volume leveling enabled, the result just didn’t evenly flow and fill the background any more, since repeatedly, details stuck out and grabbed my attention to detract me from whatever I was doing.
Au contraire, my dear fellow audiophile!
If an even flow without unasked for artistic expression is the goal, one should just configure a Raspberry Pi with a loopback device to pipe Roon through, install Ardour DAW including effects plugins from the free software repository and easily do as Soma FM exemplifies.
But then, is there still any value in seeking out boutique recordings of highest resolution and dynamic range, and worshipping bit perfect blackest background jitter and ground plane noise free USB cable modding and what not audiophile snake oil mantra?
One just can’t have it all …
3 Likes
Torben_Rick
(Torben - A Dane living in Hamburg - Roon Lifer)
17
… which might be part of the problem. Depending on how your playback chain processes dsd, the output could be 6dB lower. I think Roon does something clever when levelling dsd that doesn’t transcode to pcm and back, but in the absence of any dsd files it’s not something I’ve ever tried.
Edit - turns out I have some Sound Liaison dsf test files. I’ll try it and see what happens!
