Can’t say I heard a huge amount of difference there but comparing using a mic on a camera thats not even lined up the same for either demonstration is very flawed to start with. It’s as bad as saying my wife says it’s sounds better even when she’s in the kitchen.
They didn’t sound volume matched as a result of the poor setup, but I would say Taiko had more bass but is sounded bloated and sounded a tad brighter perhaps. Roon seemed a bit more flat, which funnily seems to be what a lot of users complaints are when comparing it. I prefer flat myself but thats just me. Funnily we didn’t get to see a signal path to see if any shenanigans going on but we will have to take their word it was unmeddled with.
However, one thing, Roon could be considered ti be general purpose software as it’s designed to run across many different platforms and hardware it’s not been designed or optimised for one specific hardware configuration where all these high end servers have. Perhaps this side of things makes a difference as they try and manage the load better to improve this that and the other, maybe it doesn’t matter? But the Grimm MU1 has got more glorious reviews than most of these servers and it’s Roon only they optimised their hardware for Roon rather than the other way around.
There are a lot of users on many different player/server combos that prefer their native playback to Roon and equal amount who prefer Roon and same amount again who hear no difference. How do we explain that?
I have not heard any difference myself from different cores and I have used a few, I compared Roon to LMS and to me it’s the same. I compared it to AudirVana but not in the exact same setup although the pc playing out both to DAC was the same, my core was separate I was just comparing using Roon as endpoint on a laptop which also had AudirVana on it. I noticed a difference and preferred Roon.
I have compared native streaming on my Naim system sounds the same yet others with same setup say they prefer Naims native streaming. As you have said there is no wrong or right answer and yes I agree the RDF as you call them can be a bit over bearing in their judgements at time and don’t budge from their objective points of view.
I don’t think I have the gear or the ears to discern the difference in sound quality between different roon cores.
I think roon sounds just fine and dandy, but if I were concerned with the tip-top ultimate no-holds-barred absolute pinnacle of sound quality, I would probably spin some kind of disc rather than stream through a network. (even if we’re talking about a ripped CD on my local drive).
However, I don’t know that my gear or ears are good enough to discern a difference in sound quality between a spun disc and roon, either.
However #2: I am certain that some CAN discern a difference. This makes me both satisfied and envious, but I’m ok with that. (I think I’m more satisfied than envious.)
I have both the SonicTransporter (Small Green Computer) and a NUCi5 running Roon core. They sound the same. Both are definitely better than running Roon on a Windows PC. I expect the switch from a MacMini to a dedicated device to run Roon core would also be better sound quality. The choice of the device to run core depends on your library size and how much DSP you want to do. If, for example, you want to upsample everything to DSD you need some CPU power.
In my experience, by far the biggest sound quality improvement is in the streaming setup and the DAC. My Denafrips Terminator + is great, but going USB from the NUC is blown away by using a good streamer. The iFi Zen is okay, not great, even with dedicated linear power supply. The Lumin U2 mini (the new model) is a significant step up.
Aurender is going to sound better than Roon. That’s a fact Jack. But Roon can sound mighty fine. And the software interface, integrated library with Tidal/Qobuz and ability to explore new music makes me a very satisfied lifetime Roon user. To each his own.
Make that 2! Its certainly not bad at all but it sure isn’t the best, in my system at least. SACD’s and Lumin streaming sounds better than Roon on my dedicated Mac Mini M1 through the same DAC. I just set up the dedicated M1 server (previously it was being used as a general computer too) and it did make a difference in performance but not sound. My brother just purchased a SGC to replace his Mini and he loves the sound way more. So I’m really looking forward to hearing it. Personally I have no desire to put more effort or money into this side of my system given how good physical media sounds to me. And to repeat…Roon is not bad it just doesn’t come up to the standards of Red Book or SACD’s. BTW… RDF…that’s classic!!!
They don’t care. The have 30k of disposable income. Their chihuahua will have a diamond encrusted collar and they’ll drive a car more expensive than most peoples homes.
Stumbled across this excellent post elsewhere in the forums:
“ The great Sean Adams, architect of the Slim Devices/Logitech Media Server, Squeezelite, the visionary who created the first integrated software and hardware ecosystem for ripped music playback, wrote:
You claim that an:
audible
measurable
hypothetical
improvement in sound quality can be attained by:
upsampling
increasing word size
vibration dampening
bi-wiring
replacing the external power supply
using a different lossless format
decompressing on the server
removing bits of metal from skull
using ethernet instead of wireless
inverting phase
installing bigger connectors
installing Black Gate caps
installing ByBee filters
installing hospital-grade AC jacks
defragmenting the hard disk
running older firmware
Your idea will not work. Specifically, it fails to account for:
the placebo effect
your ears honestly aren’t that good
your idea has already been thoroughly disproved
modern DACs upsample anyway
those products are pure snake oil
lossless formats, by definition, are lossless
those measurements are bogus
sound travels much slower than you think
electric signals travel much faster than you think
that’s not how binary arithmetic works
that’s not how TCP/IP works
the Nyquist theorem
the can’t polish a turd theorem
bits are bits
Your subsequent arguments will probably appeal in desperation to such esoterica as:
jitter
EMI
thermal noise
existentialism
cosmic rays
And you will then change the subject to:
theories are not the same as facts
measurements don’t tell everything
not everyone is subject to the placebo effect
blind testing is dumb
you can’t prove what I can’t hear
science isn’t everything
Rather than engage in this tired discussion, I suggest exploring the following factors which are more likely to improve sound quality in your situation:
That post should be made a sticky because it’s 100% on the money. And so it goes, on and on, round and round, in audio forums everywhere. Get some curtains/q-tips and listen to the music, not the equipment!
If you’re still in the mood check out mytek Manhattan bridge ll with roon core or the Brooklyn bridge ll both excellent also roon core think it’s an intel i7.
Happy to confirm that the Brooklyn Bridge II Roon Core is the one very good viable option that is now shipping. Brooklyn Bridge II Roon Core combines the Intel I5 11th gen CPU Roon Core with the Brooklyn DAC+/Brooklyn Bridge 1 grade DAC and preamp at $4995 including 4TB and 1 year of free Roon subscription. This makes it highly competitive with the Nucleus plus, the BB II is actually faster than Nucleus plus because the I5 CPU is of newer generation. The DAC quality is exceptional: it is the same DAC as in the original Brooklyn Bridge which is the Stereophile Product of the Year 2019 https://www.stereophile.com/content/stereophiles-products-2019-digital-source-2019 but sounding 20% better because of large toroidal linear power supply replacing previous switching psu. With powerful Roon Core cpu and soon Upnp and other network alternative options and all the preamp and headphone features, the compact Brooklyn Bridge II Roon Core is shaping to be another modern , great sounding Mytek hit product. For more info please see: Brooklyn Bridge II - Roon Core • Dac • Headphone • Phono • Preamp
