I’m just sayin’ that i hear/experience bigger variations between streamers/transports than i do with DAC’s.
Or maybe that is, DAC’s react to streamers in a bigger way than the opposite.
I have a pretty decent setup (imo) and a good solid sounding preamp with individual level matching of inputs, where i can set up parallell sound paths.
When bridging these in Roon i can have instant switching between two (or more) DAC’s with various sound paths. And to my ears most DAC’s sound extremely similar, whereas i can pretty easily distinguish between a Raspi streamer and, say, a direct USB connection or the SOtM sMS-200 Ultra Neo.
And to be clear, i think that the prices digital solutions command, are in no way near the sonic differences they display…
Thanks for the reply.
I’ll have a look to see if I can individually match imputs on my preamp (I think not but I’ll have to revisit the menu) I can hear the difference between computer USB and Zen Stream. I do not know if I can find a way to connect two dacs to ZS then to switch between them on the preamp. Never tried from computer as I could do that with Zen Dac2 and CA 200M.
Next month or so I’ll buy an intona usb isolator as I’m curios to compare comp USB with intona to ZS.
Thanks for taking the time to respond, good points
Traian you can do that if have a DAC that accepts SPDIF input.
I set one up for a while that was running at 24/192 and it sounded wonderful, but only worked that high in Roon only mode. In2as doing a lot of testing of the two output’s but ended up going with the simplicity of the USB to the Zen DAC.
Oh, I see. That is a good idea. But then I would be comparing not only the dacs but also the USB vs SPDIF outputs of the ZS. But I can see a no of combinations Thanks for the idea… And now I need a SPDIF cable…
Can you get Amazon next day at this time of year?
Shop prices seem to be crazy for these kind of cables.
The test worked well for me as you can software switch the output’s in Roon only mode and you know your only getting the basic streaming services of the Stream.
That depends on which DAC you use. Rob Watts recommends using Spdif instead of USB for his FPGA Qutest DAC. I’ve tried it and can confirm it. I use a Silverstar BNC cable between the NP5 and the Qutest and am still happy without the slightest desire to change.
I also tested other streamers on this Qutest, all set with the same resolution, of course.
By far the worst was a Chromecast dongle. Followed closely by a Pi over USB.
OT/on
USB audio2 (mostly) eliminates clock dependencies or more general jitter as it’s not a synchronous protocol. The receiving DAC buffers and uses its own clock without regarding the sender side. Just demanding more of less speed of the data feed. No fancy clocks needed any more. This is not the case with SPDIF or TOSLINK.
OT/off
Sorry to complicate the various options, but, if you are talking about USB output to SPDIF DAC, consider a digital-to-digital converter (DDC) which would bump up modest hardware into Auralic/Grimm/Innous/Lumin/Taiko territory.
I very happily use a $700 Singxer SU-6 DDC between an Allo streamer and my $20k Meridian active speakers. Check out the review by Hans Beekhuyzen.
It’s not a snap, but it’s something anyone can do.
There are online instructions that will take you step by step. Pictures and video available.
There are also relatively inexpensive streamers by companies like iFi that come assembled.
You can also find a second hand Pi ready to go.
Look around on sites like this one where people put them up for sale. There’s even one for sale on this site now.
I took the plunge about 5 months ago and got the Naim Uniti Atom HE .
Obviously describing sound is impossible. I am a 100% headphone listener using Sennheiser HD800 , previously I had a RPi Allo DigiOne feeding an Audiolab M-DAC on coax. I immediately noticed an improvement and a few weeks later re-auditioned the test tracks I used and could convince myself it was even better.
As a unit it is strikingly simple. I have a NUC/ROCK set up remotely, then Ethernet to the Naim , it’s 2 wires . The unit is really quite slick, especially the big volume control and the display is clear and large. It displays only the album cover , as you move a hand towards the screen more detail is displayed.
I use it with a balanced XLR cable to the HD800’s, out of the back which actually suits my layout
It will stream just about anything but the spec will tell you that. I use Roon 100% although I have a DLNA server too (JRiver) . I use Tidal as we don’t have Qobuz in South Africa , but that is via Roon as well.
The disclaimer, I am 72 so my Golden Ears days are well gone, but I am extremely happy with the SQ
It’s a beautiful piece of kit to have pride of place . I am more than happy .
The Naim stuff I think is truly brilliant. It does have its own sound signature though. But that signature runs the line. If you can go listen to anything Naim, with your headphones, and decide it works for you then there you go. If you can’t listen then I’d consider it a risk.
I like separates. Does the streamer matter? It depends on the DAC. Some DACs don’t care. Other DACs will sound vastly different given a better quality source. As someone else pointed out, Chord recommends SPDIF so your streamer should have that as output. It should also support Roon out of the box (RAAT). I saw some streamers listed in the thread that don’t support RAAT.
Raspberry Pi 4 - So, always a good decision here. They immensely flexible and you can use them for many things. No shortage of various software options to get RAAT on them (I like RoPieee). But, out the box, they are USB only. Unlikely you’ll find issue with this until you have a SPDIF interface to compare it to. We’re talking subtle, usually, differences so unless you’re comparing side by side, audio memory will fool you. Can you put SPDIF on a Pi? Sure, there are a number of digital HATs (Hardware Attached on Top). These are boards that attach to the GPIO pins of the Pi to add new functionality. A digital audio HAT will use the I2S bus of the Pi to move audio up to the HAT. But, clocks can be an issue and clocks are everything with SPDIF. If you go the HAT route you want one that has its own clock and does not use the clock off the Pi.
A step-up from the Pi route is the iFi Zen Stream which gets good reviews but I’ve never heard one.
And stepping up from that is hundreds of things that all cost more and may / may not provide a better listening experience. Again, the Chord product SPDIF interface will surely benefit from a better source but don’t blow your budget on the source… I recommend better DAC.
You could start with a Pi using USB and upgrade from there. Problem with Pi right now is supply is low so prices are inflated. That may be a good of reason as any to look at something like the Zen, Holo Red, a Lumin, SoTM, etc. can’t really go wrong with any of these. Just keep the budget in check.
3 Likes
Jim_F
(Remember - It's easier to Keep a Customer than to get a New One)
57
I use USB from RPi4 running RoPieeeXL to Chord Mojo 2. There is no need for optical.
I’m sorry, I may have made a mistake, but I can’t find the source anymore.
Jim_F
(Remember - It's easier to Keep a Customer than to get a New One)
60
I know Watts prefers optical. I’m just saying with an RPi4 and Mojo 2, USB works very well. I did get noise with USB from Dell to Mojo 2. That’s why I purchased another RPi4 for this purpose.
I also have an HDMI extractor I can use from Dell to Mojo 2, but it’s not needed.
I’m not a fan of SPDIF. It’s slow and is complicated because of the way clocks work making the DAC only as good as the source. But I’m even less of a fan of poor USB receivers because manufacturers are simply checking a box on a feature list.
I like Chord a lot but they are a bit of an “ecosystem” with their own sound signatures (filters) and preferences for certain interfaces. One of those is SPDIF… the m-scaler uses dual SPDIF which comes at great expense over a single USB. USB has plenty of bandwidth where SPDIF does not. I assume, if Chord thought they could have gotten the same sound quality between m-scaler and DAC using USB they would have instead of going to the complication and expense of sync’ing two SPDIF interfaces.
USB works fine. And we’re talking subtle differences for sure. If you’ve never A/B compared then you’re not missing anything. My only point, and maybe its a point that doesn’t need to be made, is if you’re going to spend Chord money then go all in on a very good SPDIF source to get the best out of the DAC.
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Bill_Janssen
(Wigwam wool socks now on asymmetrical isolation feet!)
62
As for this business about S/PDIF being better than USB – for some older DACs with bad USB interfaces, that may be true. But the USB Audio class 2 interface is superior in many ways to the old S/PDIF interface, if your DAC supports USB properly. Most significant of which is that the USB protocol allows the DAC to signal back to the sender to adjust timing. I would always use USB over S/PDIF if possible, and I’d replace any DAC with a bad USB interface.
Thanks for the idea… And now I need a SPDIF cable…