[Resolved with MacOS. 15.3] Roon on MacOS 15.0+ Sequoia: Audio Zones Disappear, Requiring Local Network Access Reset or RAAT/Roon/macOS Restart

I had to reboot the Mac everytime Roon updated. Otherwise it would only see the directly connected DAC. After the reboot everything worked again.

Eventually decided to setup a Lenovo laptop with Linux instead. It now runs my Roon Server. Also the Lenovo having 16 gb of RAM makes Roon run much better. Compared to my 8 gb M1 MacBook Pro.

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I’m on 15.2 and have the local network problem. My Roon core is scheduled to shutdown at night every day so this is a particular nuisance. Problem occurs on every reboot.

Posted this elsewhere.

In macOS Sequoia, Apple has introduced a new popup that asks for permission to search for devices in your local network. This change is because if an app uses multicast features (UDP), macOS automatically displays this popup. If the app is allowed, it can use UDP to search devices in the local network. If not allowed, the local network UDP search feature may not work. You can see this in Settings → Privacy and Security-> Local network access. Here, you can toggle on or off the apps, but they can’t be removed. Even if you turn them off, sometimes the UDP feature will still work in the app for no apparent reason.

There currently seems to be a bug with the new Local Network settings (Prompts). As above, you’ll receive a popup if an app sends something to an address in your network (usually something in the 192.168.x.x range).

With Ben’s suggestion, it seems toggling on and off on the Roon app only works at the time. If you reboot the system, you may face the issue again… So, it’s possible you updated, left the machine on and rebooted, or a system change, or simply macOS updating something in the background.

Apple published a tech note with information about this: TN3179: Understanding local network privacy | Apple Developer Documentation.

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@connor, though I never personally experienced the Sequoia discovery problem it may be of interest to you that after updating to macOS 15.2, the following reboot, and when Roon auto-started after logon, macOS prompted me (using EA B1489) for the very first time to allow Roon’s network device discovery access:

image

It seems to me, based on other prompt failures I have seen in Sequoia, that part of the Roon problem may always have been that macOS failed to prompt when it should have - hence, I suppose, the need to toggle the setting off and back on. (At work, where we develop Mac software as well, we experienced failure to display folder access prompts although they should have, caused by an undefined state of the responsible macOS service. This was inconsistent and only affected a subset of users).

Maybe Apple is getting a grip on this now.

I’m on Macos 15.2 and my system is scheduled to shutdown every night so I run into this problem daily. I’m wondering if it isn’t going to take a Roon app update to resolve. Perhaps this is related:

Local Network Privacy is new in Sequoia. The developer would have to update the app with a “multicast entitlement” …

Local Network Privacy FAQ-3 (developer.apple.com)

May well be possible make it reliable. Good find with your link :+1:
@Formula posted other Apple developer guidance further up in this thread:

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I have tried all the solutions outlined here in terms of file deletions, toggling Local Network access, etc. Nothing works. The only method that occasionally works is a full-on shutdown of my MacBook Pro and then a restart. But… it doesn’t last & it only works sometimes. After a few hours, the zones will disappear again. Tidal “sees” all the DAC’s in my system as does my MacBook through the Sound control in the System Settings as well as the Audio Midi utility. I have now moved my router & Roon Server to my workstation and have directly connected my Dacs to the Server’s USB outputs. That appears to work.
The issue is in the Roon system…

Hi, I’m back again.

My 2018 Mac Mini stopped working just before Christmas - it wouldn’t restart and I wasn’t able to re-install MacOS. I suspect there was a problem with the SSD and the T2 chip blocked me from installing a new system. The upshot was I bought a new M4 Mac Mini (base model 16GB/256GB SSD) to replace it. It runs MacOS 15.2, headless and is hardwired in the same network cabinet as the Intel Mac Mini. It runs only the most basic software - no email etc, just iNet Network Scanner and iStat menus plus Roon.

When I restarted the Mac Mini after updating to MacOS 15.2, Roon started at login as it usually does, does and it came up with the no Audio Zones message. So I opened privacy and security to toggle the settings, but the Roon apps were NOT in the Local Network app list. When I closed and started Roon, I got a pop-up requesting Local Network access and the Roon apps then appeared in the Local Network permissions list and the audio zones appeared. I’d already noticed with the other Mac Mini, that shutdown, followed by startup would sometimes enable Roon to access the audio devices on the network (but not always). However, a restart never showed the audio devices until I’d gone through the Local Network toggle ritual. I mentioned this phenomenon in a previous post - could it simply be a timing/timeout issue?

I’ve resolved this for now, by not turning off the Mac Mini overnight as its power drain is much, much less than the Intel-based machine. However, I’d still prefer to power it off overnight so it’s not the real solution.

There are still other related issues. In the morning, when we play music for the first time, our Roon remote devices often don’t connect to the Roon server, even though the server is visible to the network (vefified by iNet on the device) and the server has not been powered off overnight. Quite often, when a remote manages to connect we still get the select audio zone button with no audio zones available, even though Roon on the Mac Mini (via screen sharing) shows all the audio zones being available.

My suspicion is Roon has some issues with networks and Apple Play in particular. This is a shame, because I when started using Roon in 2020, it fixed all the issues I’d previously had with Apple Play (endless reboots etc just to get connected and frequent dropouts). I’m now pondering whether or not to continue with Roon as I now spend more time troubleshooting than actually listening. Both Tidal and Apple Music apps can Air Play from the new Mac Mini, without any difficulty or delay and quite often I fall back on these apps, despite their limitations. I would really prefer to use Roon.

I’ve been struggling with AirPlay myself over the past month I think.

Last week I decided to completely reinstall Roon (deleting the app and the folders inside Library), and restore my music database from a backup. That seemed to help a bit, but AirPlay was a hit or miss: sometimes it could play for hours, others it was a song by song situation.

I decided to take a deep look and did these things:

  • Removed unused extensions from the Roon allow list
  • Disabled the Home Assistant integration for Roon (just to experiment)
  • Looked into the Local Network preferences and also in the Firewall list. I noticed that I had double entries for Roon apps and RAATServer on the list. I decided to delete the entries for Roon and Roon Appliance.

I haven’t had any problems with AirPlay since doing these steps. Could it be a coincidence? Probably, but I think it’s worth a shot.

I hope this helps and you can go back to enjoying your music!

I find Roon very disappointing on the Mac, in general. Compared to Windows or Rock the experience is night and day. On the Mac, you get frequent situations where all your devices aren’t recognized, scanning takes forever and frequently crashes, when you add a new album, the whole collection is rescanned, not just the folder containing the new album, etc. I have tried Roon on both a Mac Studio 2 and Mac Mini Pro4 – both equally bad experiences. For now, I am sticking with Windows and Rock.

Have you tried putting the unit into DFU mode? You might be able to revive it with the new Mac. It requires Apple Configurator, so if you haven’t heard of it, I’d look it up. Plenty of videos on YouTube about it.

These current issues are not just isolated to Roon with using MacOS Sequoia. Reddit is full of people having issues with Chrome, Firefox, and many other programs. I wouldn’t say it’s well documented, but there is certainly a lot issues plaguing a lot of people.

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Thanks for the suggestion. Yes I’ve tried DFU mode (which successfully updated the Mac) and still get the same -1008F error when I try to install a new system. I’ve also spent a couple of hours online with an Apple person and we both concluded it was probably hardware and would need further investigation. The MacMini is now seven years old and shortly will be sunsetted anyway, so I’m not sure it’s worth repairing, especially as I think it won’t be cheap. My suspicion is the SSD was failing.

It works now! Thank you

I am experiencing the same problem: with every update I lose all my zones except for the actual USB connection between my 2018 Mini and my DAC. Tweaking the networking in System Settings solves this, but only until next time. It is frustrating, but I will hold off on a hardware (M4) upgrade to see if a fix is forthcoming from Roon. :upside_down_face:

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same here… even after last software upgrade (roon)

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It’s way more likely to be an Apple bug. Either Roon can work around it or Apple fixes the mess it’s created turning macOS into Vista.

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I’ve tried all the fixes, reinstalled from a backup, toggled the local network switch. Nothing has worked. I can see all my remote roon endpoints and airplay locations, but local audio on my mac is not available. The screen flashes briefly every few seconds and it looks like there’s some audio options there, but I can’t be sure.

Eventually solved it by deleting the .remembid file, deleting and reinstalling the app.

Hoping I don’t have to do this every time I reboot.

I agree; my concern is that, in the Apple universe, the troubleshooters are occupied elsewhere. This problem may never rise to a priority.

Not really convinced that this is entirely an Apple bug or even an Apple bug at all: I have 9 apps using local network without any issue at all. Only Roon Server has a problem on my Mac and only after updating Roon. In my case restarting Roon Server once always fixes the problem until the next update.

Sure, it was introduced with Sequioa however it’s also possible that Apple changed something to generally improve the way it works that is incompatible with the way Roon uses it which might be different to other apps. From my experience being a software tester in professional life I can only warn on blaming one side before the root cause has been found.

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