ROCK's future

Absolutely This.

I agree. Sorry for the harsh words, buddy.

@Matthew_Willims Looks like I can order barebone FU02 and add memory+SDD+SATA. Speaking of memory, FU02 comes with DDR4, but Ryzen 7730u is apparently compatible with DDR5 memory. Would it be better with DDR5? Which memory did you buy?

Stick with the memory type installed. Small form factor computers rarely have the duplicate memory slots required to support different memory technologies so I suspect the FU02 will be restricted to DDR4 by the board that is fitted.

My Mac Mini is on 24/7. It never goes off unless I shut it down. No apps needed just the appropriate system settings.

I just messaged the seller for a price with the SSD and Wifi card removed though with the desired amount of RAM. That way no need to worry about RAM compatibility. The board only has DDR4 slots and I believe I read somewhere they’re fussy about the brand used so just get it shipped with RAM installed. :wink:

An impressive, monolithic attitude. Is it form factor, or function that leads you to this conclusion? I suspect the nomenclature came from marketing of PCs to tech illiterate managers in the 00s. ā€œCall it a ā€œworkstationā€ and they won’t think about all the non-work things their staff will be doing on them, constantly.ā€ How do you use Roon without a computer, or are you drawing a subtle hardware distinction between types of drives?

Let us put it this way.
In the past, I used to own quite a big IT company. Even then, I did not care about the computing power, memory, or anything else. I did not know what processor I had, how much memory, etc. It was just an electronic typewriter (an advanced one).
If you wear a non-mechanical watch, do you care about the processor, oscillator, or anything else? No. You do not. You care about (a) aesthetic and (b) functionality.
The same goes with hifi. 15 years ago something like that I used to have a Bladelius Embla player.
It was great when it was not updating.
For my own needs, I use a few computers. For Apple, I do not worry; it just works. On a Linux machine, I have to take care (and I am not sure I like that). I am afraid of the Microsoft Surface Laptop as anxiety is caused by different types of patches and an extreme lack of security.
For that reason, I look at ROCK distribution as an appliance as well as my iPhone, Garmin Watch, and so on.
Only the slightest idea of having a music server that needs monitoring from an IT perspective is not acceptable to me.

Speaking as a retired software architect: Amen to that… :slightly_smiling_face:

At least someone understands me.
Insisting that something is a computer in 2024. is nonsense. Everything around us is computers. Yet, no one insists that my heart rate monitor should have its docker, nor no one even mentioned to run it on an iMac or something. It is an appliance.

Unfortunately, all computer devices need some kind of monitoring - even it is just ā€˜occaisionally putting your hand on the device to see how hot it is getting’.

Even on fanless devices, dust accumulates and degrades the cooling efficiency and periodically needs cleaning off. On devices with forced air cooling (a fan), dust accumulates and fans fail.

Linux is no better and no worse than any other OS in this respect. My DietPi hosted Roon Server has been a ā€˜set it and forget it’ device just like a ROCK installation would be expected to be. The difference is that I can monitor the temperaturesto check whether the cooling is working correctly without having to physically touch (or listen to) the device (although those methods would still work) - just as you can on your Apple Mac if you need to.

The ability to monitor a systems performance does not mean that it becomes necessary to use those facilies.

Even the issue of Windows updates being applied has not, in my experience, been of significant impact. When updates force reboots, you can generally control when they occur to minimise impact. Updates causing significant issues, is not, in my experience, the issue that some would have you believe provided you defer the installation of updates to the extent possible and don’t install early access updates. I have had four or more Windows computers in my household for some 22 years now and only on one occaision did one Windows 10 update cause issues on one of the four computers (a realtek ethernet driver update broke networking on that computer completely). I have had many more issues caused by my own carelessness or even stupidity - on one computer I once managed, when using regedit, to remove support for keyboard and mice - which was a bit of an issue since I did not have remote access set up on that computer :rofl:

Fortunately, you are entirely wrong.
I never touched a computer that measures consumption in my car.
I never touched the computer that controls the elevator in the building.
I am unsure how a computer that measures my electricity works, I have never seen one.
Following that path, ROCK is intended not to be supervised but used as an appliance.

Never brought your car in for maintenance? They will check the software.

Your elevator does not have an operator permit that needs to be renewed? No elevator maintenance? They’ll check the software.

I disagree.

Just because you don’t do this monitoring does not mean that it is not being monitored. Computers in cars log faults which will be checked when the car is serviced.
The elevator control system will log faults which will be reviewed when the elevators are serviced.
The computer that measures your electricity consumption will be monitored by your energy supplier.

ROCK is used to create a Nucleus like device which, like a Nucleus, is designed to be as much like an appliance as is possible. However, Nucleus devices and the NUCs (or other computers used for MOCK) used to host ROCK systems are still computers using standard computer components and need to be treated as such. Periodic maintainance checks are necessary. If they are not performed, then the performance of the device will eventually degrade due to thermal throttling and premature failure may occur.

I’ve probably got one of the last released Intel NUC models as my daily workhorse. 12th gen i7 CPU, 32 gb RAM and 1 tb SSD. But I have never used it for a Roon Server.

I’m currently running my Roon Server on a Lenovo laptop with an 8th gen i7 CPU, 16 gb of RAM and 1 tb SSD. Music is stored on an external 2 TB USB hard drive. The whole system is running on LMDE 6. Linux Mint’s Debian edition. I’m checking for Linux updates once per 2 weeks or so and give it a fresh reboot then. But otherwise Roon runs 24/7 here.

Rock on a NUC sounds nice to me, but to be honest I have very little maintenance to do on my Server so I don’t feel the need to fork over cash for a Nucleus or a NUC with Rock installed.

I went the other way. When I got my NUC, I started with ROCK but migrated to DietPi linux primarily because it does offer the monitoring tools. I don’t use them regularly - but they are there when I want to use them - like last summer when the outside temperature was approaching 38 Celcius and the ambient temperature where the NUC was situated was upward of 40 Celcius (normally more like 20 Celcius), I could check that even when loaded my NUC was not getting overly hot. Other than by using ā€˜hand on device’ or other external case temperatue measurements, that is just not possible with ROCK.

You are right here.
I regularly pay someone to take care of my car. I don’t care if that includes a software update with the oil change. I don’t.
In exactly the same way, I PAY RoonLabs to take care of my music server. Occasionally, I get a message that I need to restart due to an update. Super. I press the ā€œupdateā€ button.
That’s it. That is everything I want to know.
I understand regular monitoring, but what was your HRV last night? I know what was mine. But processor temperature is not of concern. I don’t want to know. Ever.

I got last generation Intel’s NUC for my Linux distribution. It is powerful enough to do whatever you want.
The only thing it cannot handle is ROCK if you have over 100000 songs in a database.
I don’t know what database engine they use, but we live in a petabyte-scale time, and a 100k architecture limit is funny. :joy:

This exactly. Good to know when Roon is playing up or if it is Plex Server or LMS.
On the rare occasion I have a look, It’s pretty much always Roon though :rofl:

It’s nice to see some fresh opinions. Roon classify their Nuclei and Rock as a ā€˜turn key appliance’ (rock: after initial setup), so I agree they really should behave as one.