rooADI - Device Volume Control for RME ADI-2 family DACs

Thanks for the reply. I used Balena Etcher with my Mac. I used rPi 2 Model B. Flash is Sandisk 32 GB HC [showing number 3 in a bucket] I assumed this is higher than Class 10, am I wrong?

On a separate note, I’m wondering if I can have multiple extension in one rPi? For example I would like to use rooADi + rooDial (or rooMax) do I need multiple rPi and memory cards?

I could be wrong but maybe asking a bit much of a rpi 2 these days especially with WiFi.

The good dr will know best what is supported but multiple extensions are supported as long as they use different connectivity ie one Bluetooth and one not bt dongle should be fine

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I used it with Ethernet. I just want to see how it works and if goes well I don’t mind buying the newest model (pi-5 8gb). By the way, is there any advantage buying pi5 over pi4? I see the following price in Amazon Canada.

Pi5 4GB = $110
Pi5 8GB = $135
Pi4 Model B = $100

Please look at the compatibility matrix in the Quick Installation Guide!

2B did not have an ARMv8 processor so NOT compatible.

Best DrCWO

Yes, you can use all of my Roon Extension on one Raspberry Pi. Only rooNuimo and rooDial cannot be used at the same time as BT doesn’t support it.

Best DrCWO

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Pi 5 is not yet supported :exclamation:

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I just order another 16 card class 10 to see if I can the rooextned installed, I understand that based on compatibility chart it won’t work for rooADI. If I see that I could install the rest of extension flawlessly then I will buy rPi 4.

I have some more questions:

  1. If I install rooADI and connect the rpi to RME through USB (to confirm the volume from Roon) can I still use my Node streamer to stream from there to RME (and not streaming thought USB)? So basically all I want is to have RooMax or RooDial to control my RME volume but the source of music I want to be Node streamer.

  2. when I change the volume through Roon, (Roon dial or Max) and if I set the RME screen to show the volume on its main page, will I be able to see the volume change progression on the screen, or will it have some sort of delay to show the set volume (will it be the same speed as IR remote in terms of volume and digit change)?

  3. in your notes you required A3 adaptor, is this a must? Or can I use any USB charger? (Such as iPhone charger with possibly higher rate)?

Yes this wiil work if you connect the ADI to the Raspberry Pi :smiley: Exactly the same configuration I run in my living room.

Yes, this is how it will work with no delay :smiley: It is instant.

You can use a USB charger to power the Raspberry Pi. I use the one for the iPad.

For better optics I recommend this. I ship it worldwide :smiley:

Best DrCWO

Wow! Fanatics! Thanks a lot! I’m so excited! This has been like a dream for me (since the day I bought my RME) thinking that it’s never possible! I took some rPi project with IR (with the help of my friend) but it resulted in delay. Cannot wait to see this!

By the way, do you personally prefer Surface remote or Max remote? And why?

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The Surface Dial works great for what it does, range, battery life and reliability are all great and it looks like it fits into a nice looking system.

Max opens a whole lot of other feature capabilities, but looks like a PC component.

So it just depends on your needs/requirements. Both good options.

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Amazing analogy!

I was also thinking that the Surface looks much more premium and I agree that Max look like PC stuff. I wondered how smooth the dial is on the Max (and it’s stepped). One other reason that I liked Max is that I hoped that I can assign presents (such as albums and playlists) to it. Also, I was hoping that I can match the dB shown on the Max display against the dB shown on my preamp (RME) but I think that’s a long shot (not sure if technically possible). At the end of the day I don’t mind having them both :laughing:

Not stepped, it’s a very smooth control wheel.

You can assign playlists but not albums. If you like to assign albums you have to create a playlist for the album.

The dB value shown on rooMax is the same as shown on the ADI-2/(4) if you use rooADI. They are always in sync.

Then you can decide which you like bet and also use the Dial for a differnt zone :+1:

Best DrCWO

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That’s why I have all of them Dial, SpaceMouse, Max, and Nuimo! :slight_smile:

All have pros and cons… and I like to tinker.

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@DrCWO i just tried flashing a new SD card 16GB C10. I tried flashing it with my Mac. But I still get the same error (7 green light). I copied my old data (rPi was functional before) back to the SD card and once I insert it it works and no 7 green light error on the Pi. I’m confused what caused this error. I download the flashing software as per your instructions so I doubt there is any issue with that software. I used two different SD card readers, so it shouldn’t be the problem. RPI is 2 B v1.1.

Do you have any thoughts?

I just ordered another Pi4 4GB from Amazon. I really want to get this done this weekend🫡

Raspberry Pi2 has nor ARMv8 processor and therefor it is not supported. Please see the compatibility matrix in the Quick Installation Guide. With a Pi4 or ZeroW 2 the SD-Card image is working.

Best DrCWO

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@DrCWO Wow! Wow! Wow!

Got my Pi4 and installing was so seamless(Sonos or Apple installations kind of smoothness).

I connected RME+Surface Dial and working amazingly smooth. The feeling so luxurious that I couldn’t have even imagined!

A few questions:

  1. Here is my chain: Node-> RME → Amp (NAD C298). I set the Node volume as fix through Bluesound app. Then I grouped Node+RME in Roon and assigned it to Surface Dial. Is this the best approach?

  2. In this case given that RME is directly connected to my power amp (with no preamp in chain) my regular listing volume would be -50dB to -30dB. I set “low reference level” on RME to -50dB. Could I do it any better? (i.e. lower volume on NODE by -30dB but set fix level for Node through Roon so that I can jack up the volume on RME? Does this make any quality difference?

  3. When RME display is set on EQ display (EQ bars), when changing volume with IR remote the EQ display intercepted by volume change to show you the volume change and then go back to EQ display again. However, this won’t happen when using the Surface dial. Is there any way to make this work? (To see the volume change when in EQ display)

  4. I wanted to get the RooMax and your page says it’s available on subscription as well, but the price is shown $75. I am under the impression that $75 is for lifetime? I don’t see any annual subduction pricing? Please advise. Is there any way to try before buy?

  5. RooPlay: I noticed that you showed on one of your videos that we can connect Pi to HDMI display to get the track art on HDMI display. I love this idea. The page shown on the screen is similar to Roon chromcast display information (cover art+ artist picture + track info). Is there anyway I we can remove artist picture? I just want to see cover art + track info. I like to replicate the feeling of streamers such as Cambridge Audio CX100 or NAD M33. I find artist picture distracting in a dark room also artist picture qualities are not always good.

  6. Do you have any recommendation for HDMI display (something that looks professional and non-DIY style). I prefer rectangular with longer width (something similar to streamers such as Hifi Rose or Eversolo or Cambridge Audio CX100)? I if they would be compatible (size wise) with cover art information coming from Pi?

Hi @mehdiem,
thanks for the praise and your questions :smiling_face:

As I did not know what you mean by “Node” that you connected to the RME ADI I’m not able to answer all your questions.

The recommended type of operation with the RME ADI is:

  • Connect the Raspberry to the RME ADI via USB
  • Enable Roon Bridge on rooExtend in the License Manager
  • Get a rooADI License Key to control the device volume of the RME ADI
  • Get a License key for rooDial (guess you already have) or whatever controller you like to use (rooMax is great :+1:)
  • In the RME ADI enable Auto Ref Level (it shows dBr in this mode) as shown in the rooADI Video. This gives you 25dB of lossless volume control with the device volume. The video also shows how to set up the volume for the Roon Bridge inside rooExtend to use the Device Volume of the RME ADI.
    If this will become too loud for your ears at 0dBr insert a XLR Inline Balanced Attenuator Volume Adapter (like this one for example) in front of the amplifier. The attenuation sould be so big, that playing at 0dBr with the RME ADI the volume is just a bit too loud for your ears. This setup gives maximum performance and transparency. Take care to NEVER combine two devices in one zone. This will always decrease audio quality for the slave!

Question 3:
You are right with your observation. I set the default display to Volume instead of EQ so I see what was set.

Question 4:
Subscription will come but not too soon. I have to make some money first with rooMax to pay for my development costs :wink:

Question 5:
This is the output of Roon and I can’t change anything here, sorry.

Question 6:
No recommendation from me sorry. I guess Google will be the better alternative here.

Best DrCWO

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@DrCWO thank you so much for your reply. There are a few things that I want to clarify on.

A) Form Node, I mean Bluesound Node Streamer. I wanted to use NODE as my steamer while having RME as my DAC and wanted to control them both with Surface Dial (control the volume for RME and Play/Pause for Node). So I got Coax out of Node to RME. And in Roon, I groups Bluesound Node with RME and then assigned them to Surface Dial in order to be able to control the volume of RME and PLAY/Pause of Node with Surface Dial.

Are you saying grouping these two (RME and Node) will not be ideal and sacrifices the quality of one or the other? If so, what is the best way to do if I want o use Node as my streamer and RME as my volume controller?

B) My understanding is that you stream through RooExtand to RME USB? Is that right? If so, do you think the quality of streaming through Rooextand +Pi + USB is at par with external steamers such as mine (Node)? I thought if I stream through Pi, I will have lower quality compared to a good streamer such as Node etc?

C) You suggested that I can use Balanced Attenuator Volume Adapter 10dB.

C.1) I currently listen between -50dB to -30dB using my Streamer (fixed at Max) output volume. I can bring the streamer volume lower by -30dB which in turn will allow me to listen at between -20dB to 0dB. Do you think this will have a same impact as using attenuator?

C.2) Are you suggesting if I manage to listen at around 0dB (on RME) i will have better transparency compared to when I listen at -30dB (on RME) [assuming that I lower the level of Node streamer output (by -30) to be able to listen at 0dB on RME, or keep the steamer output at max but lower the entry to the amp using attenuator]

C.3) given I need at least -30dB reduction in volume should I buy an attenuator with -30dB? The one that you shared shows -10dB

C.4) my amp (NAD 298C) has input level control (to -20dB). I didn’t use it (currently using it at fix max) because on ASR review by Amir he noted that he get the best result with that turned off. What do you think? Would this be useful?

C.5 which alternative would you chose? C.1, C.3 or C.4?

Hi @mehdiem,
try to answer all your questions:

A)
OK, setup as follows:
Streamer Bluesound Node via Coax to RME ADI-2 DAC. This is where audio travels. Raspberry Pi with rooExtend and rooADI/rooDial enabled via USB to RME ADI-2 DAC. This is where Volume control got transported.

In Roon you select Bluesound Node as playback device ONLY! Open the device settings in Roon of Bluesound Node.

  • First select device volume ans det it to 100%. In any other setting you will loose bits!
  • Next select rooADI: Volume as Volume control (see below). Now you can control Stop/Play and Volume of the ADI with the Surface Dial if you select the Node as Zone to be controlled by the Dial in rooDial.

As RME ADI-2 DAC is extremely well designed it will make no audible difference if you send Audio by USB or by S/PDIF.

But in general USB is better! Let me explain:

  • In case of S/PDIF the DAC has to recover the clock that is mixed up with data using S/PDIF. this can never be exact as the clock of the DAC has to be variable to follow the clock in S/PDIF.
  • USB is a pull protocol. So the DAC runs on its self made 100% stable clock (no adjustments necessary to follow the clock of the streamer) and gets data via whenever it needs one. This is true for UAB Audio Class2 only but any modern dac uses it. So Jitter is practically impossible with USB. So from the theoretical point of view I would prefer USB and the Roon Streamer within rooExtend. Also one device less saves energy and rescued the planet :wink:

B) The streamer itself does nothing but transporting data from Ethernet to USB or S/PDIF. In case of USB no clocks are involved so this is a 100% transparent data transport. So no matter what streamer you use. In case of S/PDIF the streamer generates the clock and the DAC as to sync on it. Different DACs do this better or worse.

C) Amplifying signals always adds noise. So best you turn down amplification of the Power Amp as low as you could. Next follow my recommendations regarding reference level in the ADI-2 and then see how much additional attenuation you need. The ADI-2 performs best running at its highest output voltage (6.9V).

Best DrCWO

So Jitter is practically impossible with USB. So from the theoretical point of view I would prefer USB and the Roon Streamer within rooExtend. Also one device less saves energy and rescued the planet :wink:

Based on your explanation, I am convinced that it would be in my best interest to stream through RME+USB+RooExtend. I longer have FOMO for not using NODE, this makes it easier for me as well!

Next follow my recommendations regarding reference level in the ADI-2 and then see how much additional attenuation you need. The ADI-2 performs best running at its highest output voltage (6.9V).

I followed your recommendation based on your video about setting Auto Reference Level on RME. After which, my regaler listening volume would be between -55dB to -25dB on RME (my outlier listing window would add an additional -/+5dB [i.e. -60dB to -20dB])

You noted that

“ADI-2 performs best running at its highest output voltage (6.9V)”

I am not sure what dB would that be equal too. But my assumption is that it’s ideal that my listening window on RME would be between -25dB to 5dB or -30dB to 0dB? Which is that the best window? If so I need around -30dB attenuation.

I searched RME Forum and I come across attenuator recommendation list, from which the most accessible for me is HOSA - ATT 448 which provides “Selectable -20 dB, -30 dB, or -40 dB attenuation”. There is also Shure A15AS 15-25 dB Attenuator

I am wondering if there is any issue with using “selectable” attenuator? For example do you think that the selector circuit (or connection) inside the attenuator create extra level of noise or anything like that? and If you think it’s better to get a non-selectable attenuator? Also, do you think that the make or brand is important? Or HOSA - ATT 448 is good for my purpose?

Alternatively, my amp NAD C298 has variable gain (I can go down by -20dB) but when I read this [NAD C298 Stereo Amplifier Review | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum] it made me think using variable gain on my amp might not be a good idea. As per Amir:

“…I started measuring with fixed gain and was pleased to see the gain close to our nominal 29 dB…Distortion is vanishingly low at -120 dB and it is noise that brings it down to a very respectable 100 dB SINAD:…I was hoping to get even better performance by lowering the gain to 15 dB. That did not happen: We actually have more distortion and some mains noise as well!”

Please let me know if you agree that using selectable attenuator is better than using my amp variable gain?

AND regarding RooMax. I am contemplating whether I should buy the full licence, and I have a few questions. How frequently do you charge your RooMax remote based on your daily average use? Do you have to turn on/off the device when it goes on standby mode or anytime that you turn the knob it will automatically activate and change the volume? I have seamless experience with Surface Dial and I don’t have to be worry about changing freqnelty and anytime I touch it it works perfectly. I am wondering if this is also true with RooMax?