If you’re not using something correctly it does not mean that it is “crap,” it just means you are not using it correctly.
Not knowing the unit you use, wouldn’t it be the proper way to input digital, let it do it’s xxx and then use your DAC to get your pristine analog signal?
Know that LarryMagoo has a history of ranting about (and getting suspended for) things that are not factual.
Contrary to the above claims about “all” and “They,” miniDSP has a number of digital room correction hardware offerings that are all digital input/output. They have no ADCs or DACs, thus physically cannot do anything to affect “pristine” analog signals. For two quick examples:
As for outsourcing room correction filter generation to a third party, such as Home Audio Fidelity, that has its downsides. The user still has to supply acoustic measurements, which are but a snapshot in time. Those measurements can change and arguably should be redone every few months as well as after any system or room changes. Furthermore, software filters may not be accessible to other non computer based sources, and even if they are, they may cause too much latency with real time sources to be usable.
AJ
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Martin,
My whole point is that is the way that the MiniDSP works…It cannot work any other way. I did not add a quality DAC to my system to have it completely undone, by an inferior process. The Custom Convolutions are made for your exact Room!. Mini DSP is just putting a Band Aid on the problem. Plus this method can instantly be switched on and off, to compare the difference from your exact listening position. Another benefit of HAF’s custom convolutions…wait for it…it’s less expensive!
I wonder, what is it about audio that makes every ignoramus that believes that music is some kind of fairy dust that an amplifier pushes, in one direction, through a directional cable, towards the speakers, that spray it into the room, that not only do they have some clue, but also that their opinions should be just as respected as those of people who managed to pass at least high school physics?!..
…that you are using it wrong. That’s not MiniDSP’s fault.
Well then Boris, Please explain the signal route that does not undo what my DAC just finished doing?
Custom Convolutions are way easier to manage yet takes no interruption with the signal path…
You’re still not disclosing any system details.
Not knowing which specific model Mini DSP you’re ranting about, the ones I refer to make use of DIRAC, which is far from being a band aid.
Well I don’t have the fancy software that will let me show you how it’s connected….so I’ll just start from the beginning….My Library is on a 2012 Mac Mini…and I have my Core on a Dec. 2021M1 Mac Mini. My 2012 Mini is connected to an Audiobyte Hydra Z via USB to bridge the signal to return an AES signal that goes to my Yggy Dac then AES out to my 8805A Marantz Pre Pro then AES out to Amp and Speakers. I listen to Multi Channel TV and Movies and Stereo Music.
Well I can’t agree with you on this having used HAF and currently Dirac as it came with my new amp and can’t say it does a better job than HAF infact quite the opposite.
Getting Dirac to how I want it requires me to know a lot more than I really want to and so far hasn’t resulted in anything I am happy with and I’ve had to redo measurements so many times as it keeps biasing to the left even though without its perfectly centred and giving same positional readings to HAF is fine.
Yes you have to give measurements for these services but he supplies a very simple and easy to use app to do it. You’re always going to need a mic for DSP so hardly taxing to take the readings and something you have to do. You get heavily discounted on any prior filters that includes other rooms it’s not really any more expensive given the price of full Dirac or a MiniDSP box which is only good for one room as is Dirac unless you have all Dirac licenses hardware.
Not all of us have time nor the inclination to endlessly fiddle to get the best eq and prefer to leave it to someone who knows his onions. For those that do use REW or whatever floats your boat but for my use cases and many HAF is a godsend. You tell him what you want he gets it there and you get on with other things. How often does a room change really mines not in the last 10 years so why would i have to redo it every few months?
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Well my Mini DSP is the full size unit that includes DIRAC. I thought was OK until someone explained that I was negating all my DAC’s work using the MINI DSP after my DAC……I agreed once it was explained and then went the HAF/Thierry route and can’t recommend him high enough….he’s quite the Gent to deal with!!! The MIC I use works great as far as I know……
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I think the hurdle there is the MiniDSP outputs Analog….so how could my DAC even participate? Plus I’d rather my DAC get first crack at the digital signal before being flavoured by other pieces of gear….I should not have said the MiniDSP is crap. They have been in business awhile so they must have a loyal following….I should just say I found another way to achieve Room Correction that does not involve another piece of additional hardware……
It does sound like you bought the wrong one for your use case then. They do ones that keep it all digital so would be working just like Roon. If you only use DSP for music then keep it in the digital domain. You only go analogue digital analogue to add DSP in to a chain that has no digital signal path to start with. Are you using it for your surround system?
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I probably should not be, but I can’t stop being amazed by people who very actively and militantly refuse to learn even a little bit how things actually work, even rather obvious things like where the signal is digital and where it is analog, but nevertheless insist on plastering their opinions about things, equally actively and militantly, all over the interwebs…
You’re still vague about key components - so be it.
Now, in the context of your other posts, that makes absolutely no sense to me.
But if it makes you happy, that’s all that counts.
Just refrain from inflammatory statements to not derail the original topic.
It’s gone too far off topic anyways.
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Marin, I could not agree more! I get awfully tired of people like the one above your comment. I never said anything nasty and retracted my statement about MINI DSP and this person had to attack me…I can say in all honesty Mini DSP has exactly ZERO benefit and only make MY SYSTEM worse. I’d sell it for a fraction of what I paid!
On my Yggy, I have every update ever done at the Factory in So Cal. Pre Amp Marantz 8805A. I use a custom tuned 5 Channel Starfire Amp. The power is supplied by 2 dedicated 20AMP circuits protected by a Monster Power HTPS 7000. Thanks Marin!
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Trinnov Altitude.
Thanks, @Simon_Arnold3 I was going to say the same thing about HAF filters but you have said it much better than I could have.
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I used REW to produce FIR filters, executed by Roon.
This tutorial isn’t perfect, but it’s a good start.
I would add…. Take a vector average of multiple listening position traces, for best results, before creating the convolution inversion.
Second……. ensure the convolution is adjusted to not exceed 0db before export.
This will in many cases prevent any need for further attenuation in Roon (subject to the amount, if any, of phase correction used).
For me this just changes the sound of the music for the supposed better for a while. Upon removing room correction it sounds better than with. I’ll stick to not adding another sound altering device to the process of getting sound to my ears. For those who obsess over every last detail (speaker, cables, interconnects, router s and switches, etc.) this would just add another layer complexity possibly negating all of the time spent dialing in your system). The second guessing would kill me.
It should be noted, that room acoustics and speaker nonlinearities are many orders of magnitude larger than any current, competently designed electronic componentry.
To me it seems, that most audiophiles, investing into esoteric cables, add-on linear power supplies, audio network components, and all sorts of other tweaky high-end paraphernalia, have got their sequence backwards, anyways.
I’d wager, most of that system dialing-in is likely inaudible anyways.
And if at all, should be done after room acoustics/correction treatment.
Think, I’ll better duck and cover now…
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