Roon 2.0 and internet connectivity [it's just like 1.8 now]

[Carl]

@ScreenMachine

Carl, thanks for this, good to know the media type is unchanged. Are these media still accessible by other solutions if they are stored on the internal drive of a NUC running ROCK, whether or not the internet is accessible?

Yes, RoonOS the operating system (used by Nucleus and ROCK), is managing the file sharing and is always available. This is independent of Roon server application.

[ScreenMachine (James)]

Thanks Carl, good to know.

[miguelito (Miguel Barrio)]

@ScreenMachine

This has implications for the amount of data we will be required to keep, going forwards, as it will no longer be sufficient to have Roon media and backup, iirc this is proprietary format and nothing else can access/play it(?). If that is the case, we will now have to keep media available in a different format/drive for the sole scenario that internet connectivity disables Roon.

Not sure what proprietary format you’re referring to here, Roon does not have any such formats.

@ScreenMachine

What is the issue in simply restoring the local search funciton, which would be activated solely in the event of internet outage

See my post above: Roon 2.0 and internet connectivity [it's just like 1.8 now] - #1016 by miguelito

If code was written assuming functions that only exist in the cloud can be accessed, with no fallback provision (and I am 99.998456% sure this is the issue) then the moment the code touches such function, it will either time out of throw outright. Fixing this incredibly dumb design is non-trivial.

[ScreenMachine (James)]

Anyone have any idea about the other scenario in my post, please?

@ScreenMachine

I have a use-case come up which would require knowingly using Roon in a situation where I am already aware there is no/patchy wifi available - a cafe where I often work and wish to start listening with headphones. I was hoping to use the old trick of transferring core to my laptop temporarily while working there, and using local files, then transferring back when I’m home. This would have worked fine under the old 30-day rule, but apparently not now? This also comes up if I’m taking a train journey and might want to listen to some music without internet, locally stored, etc. I’m sure these are not the only examples and it’s not just during downed internet access that this might be affecting legitimate users.

So - as a temporary work around (although I reiterate that I’m against the whole principle of this ‘internet required’ approach):

1. What does Roon require by way of connection reliability/speed in this scenario to play back local files (e.g., will a tethered iPhone with very low-to-no reception do it, if I’m not using the search function much)? I’m not sure how much and for what purposes Roon checks in with online servers, apart from when searching.
2. Assuming zero internet connection, is it possible/going to cause issues if I run 1.8 Legacy core when using the laptop and 2.0 on Rock at home, or will this mess up favourites, etc.?
3. Is it possible to run two versions of Roon on my laptop, 1.8 when out and about as core, 2.0 at home to use Roon remote?
4. Not necessarily to do with the above issue, but do I need to mirror the media exactly between the two setups, or are the two cores treated as distinct and separate for this purpose?

[ScreenMachine (James)]

Is there a reason this thread appears to be ‘hidden’ in the feedback forum? And this one also Roon 2.0, Internet Access, MacOS requirements - I'm furious - #58 by Bill_Janssen ?

[miguelito (Miguel Barrio)]

@ScreenMachine

Assuming zero internet connection, is it possible/going to cause issues if I run 1.8 Legacy core when using the laptop and 2.0 on Rock at home, or will this mess up favourites, etc.?

If you had 1.8 on one machine and 2.0 on another, you could easily switch the license back and forth - this switch works reliably, I have done it weekly all summer (have Roon core in my beach house so switch between city and beach back and forth).

@ScreenMachine

Is it possible to run two versions of Roon on my laptop, 1.8 when out and about as core, 2.0 at home to use Roon remote?

That I think might not be possible as it might corrupt your Roon database - I would not assume the db has not changed from 1.8 to 2.0. If you’re able to have Roon cores running on two machines (2.0 and possibly 1.8 running in a virtual machine in the same physical machine), then you could easily switch cores in your client, it will ask you to unauthorize the other core (both cores can keep running as you switch back and forth).

[ScreenMachine (James)]

Thanks.

OK so not sure dedicating laptop to only run 1.8 would work as I need it to be able to run remote compatible with 2.0 ROCK core at home when there. I’d only need to run 1.8 core when working in the above scenarios (or as a failover during internet outage).

In terms of the virtual machine suggestion, I’m not familiar with how to do this, are there any guides for MacOS?

[miguelito (Miguel Barrio)]

@ScreenMachine

In terms of the virtual machine suggestion, I’m not familiar with how to do this, are there any guides for MacOS?

Parallels for paid VM, Virtualbox for free version. You need to make sure the directory where the Roon db will sit are different. Parallels does a good job completely obscuring that, which in this case it is not desirable.

However, these solutions are not for people who have little technical abilities to be honest. I don’t know where you stand.

[Rugby (aka Daniel or Big Dan)]

@ScreenMachine

virtual machine

Is not a supported environment, btw.

[wunderhund (C.P. Ralph)]

Greetings – I’m only just getting Roon up and running for the first time this past month, but I have been streaming music for many years to my hi-fi via LMS on a NAS to a Squeezebox Touch and other devices.

Apologies if the comparison has already been made, but I think listening to one’s music via Roon is analogous to viewing and working with one’s photos in Adobe Lightroom or other photo software that organizes, tags, and adjusts photos.

If an aspect of a Lightroom subscription involved losing the ability to view your own photos stored on local drives when the internet was down, I believe a sizable amount of their userbase would look for alternatives.

Losing the ability to edit and view files stored online without an internet connection: understandable. Losing core functionality to use the software if an internet connection is unavailable would be a major flaw, in my opinion.

By means of comparison, here is Adobe’s internet requirements and grace period for offline use of its Creative Cloud software (TLDR: it’s over four months to use the software without an internet connection):

Internet connectivity, offline grace period, and reminders | Adobe Creative Cloud apps

Roon has its reasons for the direction of their software development. Off-loading processes to the cloud gives Roon the opportunity to create new functionality that is shared uniformly by all platforms, consolidating the efforts of their developers. It also perhaps gives existing Roon servers a longer shelf-life as the hardware requirements to run the software would increase much more gradually.

I know that Roon doesn’t have the resources of an Adobe, but this new internet requirement really doesn’t seem to be in the spirit of an audiophile community that is seeking a digital audio playback solution that most closely resembles the independent experience of playing an LP or CD.

For me, the lack of functionality of the software if no internet connection is present is a concern as I live in Puerto Rico, where power and internet outages for hours or days are a regular occurrence. Should the internet go down, I realize other apps could play my files, but I agree with @miguelito that an accepted tenet of software that one pays (or paid) for is for it to work offline on local files.

What I’ve experienced with Roon so far, I love; I still may very well become a regular subscriber to Roon. But I am disappointed in the direction of Roon’s internet connectivity requirements, as well as their planned price increase, especially in light of the fact that Tidal and Qobuz have lowered their subscription prices this year.

Cheers.

[killdozer (Brutalise me with music)]

VMs aren’t in general and are a slightly clunky solution, if you just want a core the Docker build runs nicely and switching between Docker machines and some shared volumes (music library) would be easy as well.

[miguelito (Miguel Barrio)]

@Rugby

@ScreenMachine

virtual machine

Is not a supported environment, btw.

Interesting… How is Roon going to know?

[Marian (I stand with Ukraine)]

“Not supported” usually means “not specifically tested for”. It doesn’t mean “blocked”, and it may work just fine.

[killdozer (Brutalise me with music)]

Well if you want a windowed remote client on top of the core it will squeal about the video drivers, or did the last time I tried it.

[miguelito (Miguel Barrio)]

You don’t really need to, a headless core is just enough, you can do all of the config from the client side - eg an iPad.

What you will be missing, I think, is all your Roon-based customizations and settings as I don’t think there’s a way to synchronize those between Roon dbs.

[ScreenMachine (James)]

So, I understand what a virtual machine is, and I’ve run one before in terms of Windows within MacOS back in the day. However, that had extensive documentation, what I can’t do is work that out with no guidance for running two versions of Roon on the same MacBook with two different versions… (at least prob not without screwing up something on my actual core, I expect).

What is the Docker build, and how would it help?

[miguelito (Miguel Barrio)]

What I am suggesting is simply set up a VM, possibly best/simplest/cheapest done in Linux (say Ubuntu), install Roon 1.8 server in it (no GUI, Roon doesn’t have a GUI on Linux anyway) and run it with your local library exposed to the process. That’s it, should work fine. You could try and restore the db from your current db although I don’t know if a 1.8 db can be created off of a 2.0 db. And you’re done.

[ScreenMachine (James)]

I would need step-by-step instructions to achieve this.

To be clear, I’d be using an M1 MacBook Pro and would need to use MacOS simultaneously to listening to music, as I would be working at the same time.

Would that work?

[GregD (Greg Dowling)]

You can happily run a macOS roon or roon core on your Mac in the background.

Not an ideal setup - but it certainly works.

For a while I did this when traveling.

[ScreenMachine (James)]

I meant in the context of running a second Roon core in a Linux VM while working in OSX at the same time…