Roon is simply unusable for classical collectors

Well it was set to “Default” (in german “Standard”) and it did not show the composer!

I Just now set it to “Always” (“Immer”) following your advise, and now the composer shows.

So the “default” does not seem to work the way you believe it to work – Or someone has messed-up the mappings of the German translation.

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This is how I am set up on my UPnP Control point. I was going a bit more into detail tagging soloists, orchestra, conductor , composer (of course) into their respective fields. With MinimServer you can than presnet this to a UPnP control point in whatever way you like.

The only reason I am looking into Roon is the somewhat more engaging optical experience, the possibility to open booklets form the album view etc. etc.

I was not quite prepared to find such a dysfunctional mess.

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Roon isn’t perfect by any means but it shouldn’t be that bad. I dont know if you’ve read this KB article on file tagging, that may help.

In the meantime I wonder if you could post a screenshot of an album where this occurs, together with one of your Settings > Library > Import settings for albums.

Perhaps if you turned on the “Always show Composer” Setting it might work?

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Yep. Read more than once. Pretty close to how I do things anyway. Dont quite know why Roon calls the movement of a composition PART while virtually everyone else calls it MOVEMENT - but so be it. I just copied tag-to-tag from MOVEMENT into PART. This fixed some of my issues, by far not all.

Here two examples: Handel Ariodante: Every track shows as a separate composition, even so the album has been “recognized” by the Roon database.

Albeniez, Iberia - Is one composition and should not be split into 3 in some cases

By default if you have a “Classical” or “Jazz” genre set then roon will display the Composer. You have only the genre “Violinkonzerte” set. In addition, roon uses the genres Classical and Jazz as a trigger to treat the content differently to how it treats other genres, for example Pop/Rock. So it is important that you “globally” set the Classical tag in your Classical library.

Recent changes in v1.7 to how roon treats the concept of a “Composer” may mean that globally setting Composer to “always display” may give you very unexpected results in Classical libraries. Roon now distinguishes Composer, Arranger, Lyricist, Libretto and a few others. And they each now get a separate display line. I for one, think this was a good step forward but as with many things roon it is not quite there for Classical libraries and the details of the implementation just have that half finished feel that is common in many corners of the roon UI.

For example. In a Classical library you are not expecting Lieder or Sacred vocal music to have “lyricists” like the “Rogers & Hammerstein” songbook. It just looks plain wrong. But what roon gives you is “Lyricist: Goethe” or “Lyricist: Shakespeare”. That really jars. The metadata suppliers are not expecting this either. So usually the writers are tagged as “Text”. The problem is that not only does roon consider the “Text” tag to be a composer, it also often sets a duplicate tag of “Lyricist”, just to be sure I guess. So if you set composer to “always on” with most Classical vocal music you will get at least two composers on the composer line and a duplicate on the lyricist line. There are similar duplications and confusion with orchestrators and arrangers for instrumental music.

The end result is an extremely cluttered and duplicated mess with almost all Classical vocal music since v1.7. Here is an example of the famous Serenade, Op. 31 by Benjamin Britten. This is an 8 part work set to the words of 5 different authors. I just shudder when I see Alfred Lord Tennyson or William Blake described as lyricists! This is not the Classical music experience I am expecting. This is what it looks like. Note that:

  1. The composer, Benjamin Britten is repeated separately 8 times for each part of the 8 part composition.

  2. The author is added as a composer in 5 of the 8 parts and then is repeated as the lyricist.

Quite a cluttered, duplicated mess:

I can tidy this up considerably by deleting all the text tags. But why do I have to do this? In addition, for Classical music these aren’t lyricists! “Text by” or “Words by” works much better. Just the same as you would see on typical Classical album art and and not give it a moments further thought.

I have set Roon to use my Genre tags, because the Roon tags are not usable. Having a genre “Classical” in a collection of 6000 CD of (95%) classical music is pretty much pointless.

Now that I have set composer to “always” I suddenly find some weirdo stuff in there. Jee, you think you have fixed one problem and create 5 new ones.

To elaborate on compositions. I have made a lot more screenprints similar to those above, but dont want to spam the forum with it. Fundamentally, there is a nother flaw:

What is a composiiton?
To me, it is something that a composer has put a opus number against, or lacking that, musicologists have grouped into one “work”.

When I look at Max Regers Choral Preludes op. 67 (52 Preludes), this is ONE composition for me. Roon treats it as 52 compositons, one for each Prelude. I dont thing, this is a correct way to handle this. Then Wagners “Götterdämmerung” should be treated as 62 compositions, every part one. I also have several operas here, where each ACT is listed as one compositions.

All pretty much meaningless stuff and another reason explaining why I see an “inflation” in compositions in my library. Does Roon actually employ anyone with the slightest understanding of classical music? Just asking.

NB: Lovely recording of that Serenade by Britten :slight_smile:

Have you changed any metadata defaults , eg Group by part set to Prefer File rather than Prefer Roon

Are you preferring your own Genre

This does not sound normal at the moment, you shouldnt be having this much trouble

Roon is far from 100% but it ought to be better than you are getting

I have approx 3000 classical albums with maybe 30 not identified

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You need to set Classical in addition to your other Classical sub-genres. I routinely do this. So I have every single Classical track set to Classical in addition to something more meaningful. Symphony, Lieder, Solo Piano etc. You will really have a lot of problems with a Classical library in roon if you don’t.

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Just to reinforce Mikes point. I have very few Classical albums unidentified that I either don’t want to be identified (box sets) or don’t expect to be identified (specialist labels, Vinyl rips).

I definitly perfer my own genre. See reason stated above.

Try defaulting to Roon Genre for the time being , it could be your Genres are confusing Roon’s lookup

My best advice is accept all Roons defaults to start with once all your Albums are in with those settings the start to play

All my settings are default . The only exception is on selected albums to Prefer File on grouping on multi part ,

Yes. That is what I am trying to warn against. A lot of the issues stem from changes in the last release v1.7. There won’t be any fixes any time soon so my advice is to experiment and do what works best for you. Personally I set a “Classical” genre for all classical tracks and set composer to “allways display” and deal with the consequences. But that will not suit everyone.

In your tags do you have value for Movement/Part ?

And in Multipart works are you preferring File or Roon , i suspect the former

By default I prefer Roon. If Roon messes up I try to fix it by using File. But as in File I use German names (Sinfonie Nr. 5 d-moll instead of Symphony No. 5 in D Minor), Roon messes up again…

No intention to maintain multi-language tags

Ok, I just done that to the Händel Ariodante example above where Roon treats every track as a seperate composition. Added “Classical” to Genre. Doenst make the slightest difference to how Roon handles this. IE: Still every track one Album… It has 82 tracks, so 82
compositions…

It gets only fixed after I populated the WORK and PART tags and pointed to file rahter than Roon.

But I still have The artists listed next to each track even tough the track artist ist empty. Only Album Artist filled. What a bummer…

Just PM you :smiling_imp:

Inbox empty…

Yes, that is not unusual in my experience. I have manually set WORK/PART tags in more albums than I can remember. I didn’t mean that setting a “Classical” genre was some kind of silver bullet that would fix all your issues. It’s just one small thing. There will likely be dozens but they have a cumulative effect.

@Mike’s advice is good. Reset roon to its defaults so that you have some baseline. You will start to see patterns where roon is not behaving as you would prefer. I think with large legacy Classical libraries that were built up over many years this has been a very common experience. Roon is very different from other players. It doesn’t necessarily comply with meta-data conventions of the past and sometimes deliberately breaks with those conventions and is not backwards compatible in that sense. Depending on your tagging habits over the years you may have a very long road ahead. If it is any consolation I have spent more than two years migrating a large Classical library to roon and I am very far from complete. TBH I have kinda given up and focus much more on the new music I get from Qobuz integration.

I just checked, and apart from Genre and Album Title, everything else is already set to use Roon data!

I have set those two to Roon now as well and will see what happens. I am not holding my breath and would not bet more than one dollar that this will fix anything…

I’ll report back.