Roon Nucleus+ (only for Roon Core, no Music Files) and Server Qnap TVS-872XT-i5-16G (only for Music Files and Backup)

Edit:

I just re-read this bit:

Hmmm, that makes the migration very tricky.

Again, there’s zero benefit to using SSDs in the NAS, so I encourage you to go with three 8 TB or larger HDDs instead. You’ll be so much happier. You’ll have redundancy, all of the performance you could ever want, and a much simpler migration.

There are dozens of things that can go wrong if you attempt to repurpose your existing SSDs as you describe. I implore you: do not do this!


Please see my note above, but I’m 80% certain that you’ll only have about 3.5 TB of usable space after the QNAP finishes installing on your two 4 TB SSDs. Perhaps QNAP owners with 2-drive setups can chime in, but this is certainly the case with Synology.

I have more than that but I have a 4 disk nas 4 x2TB, with raid 6 and snapshots.

You didn’t mention the existing NAS, but I suppose it does not really factor into your migration since it does not have enough “scratch” space for you to temporarily shift the 8 TB of local files from your two SSDs.

Since you are already familiar with how NASes work, I’m surprised that you are considering going with SSDs for the new one. Would love to understand your thought process.

As you know, RAID-6 “eats” two drives for parity, so you only have half of the usable storage with a 4-drive array. The same would be true of your new NAS if you use RAID-6 on the four SSDs there. You’ll be left with less usable space than you have now!

Perhaps you were thinking of not using RAID at all…just JBOD, but I’m not sure that Qnap will install without at least RAID-1 (check the manual to see). Even if it does, the Qnap OS will require some space from one of the four SSDs. You’ll have the complexity of four separate volumes to manage and balance space usage. If any one of them fails, you’ll lose ~25% of your library, minimally requiring you to restore from a backup, and you’ve not described what you are using for backups of not just the Roon database but your ~12 TB music library.

I have not either…but a NAS is different. rotating hard disks for archival storage (which a large music library is) make a lot of sense. The access pattern for large files is sequential reads, which HDDs do very well. Where they suffer is with random I/O (eg., required for Roon’s database).

You will not experience significantly faster file access with SSDs in the Qnap. HDDs doing sequential reads can easily deliver over 200 MBps while your LAN is limited to a theoretical max of 125 MBps. You may have slightly less heat dissipation, but keep in mind that your Qnap will spin down the HDDs when not in use, so there may not be as much of a difference in heat dissipation as you would think.

Dear David_Snyder and dear CrystalGipsySimon

Thank you very much for your very interesting contributions,
which I first have to study very carefully in order to understand them.

Enclosed is a correction on my part for better understanding:

all music file tag edits are done with Roon only, not on the original music data file and not on the backup music file.

Since the tag editing of the music albums was done with Roon,
these are certainly registered in the Roon Library / Roon Database.

Therefore already a question asked here, where is this Roon Library / Roon Database?

Can I remove the old, full internal 4 TB SSD disk and run the Roon Nucleus without it?

No more music files should be stored in the Roon Nucleus,
The Qnap server will be used for this purpose in the future.

Many thanks to you

Michael
.

Dear all here,

Enclosed is a process flow for an upgrade of an internal HD / SSD disk, which I published here in the Roon Forum already revised.

What can I use from this process flow for outsourcing the music files to a Qnap server?

Steps for changing the smaler internal Music Drive to an larger new one:

Actual Process Step, Version from Gerald_Schrader 21 May 2019:

  1. Backup Roon database.

  2. Go to Nucleus log-out page: Log out of Nucleus (Go to Settings, General and click Logout)

  3. Shut down Nucleus from Nucleus web admin page

  4. Disconnect the Nucleus from the electric power

  5. Remove / replace internal storage SSD to an larger one.

  6. Connect the Nucleus to the electric power.

  7. Power up Nucleus from Nucleus web admin page

  8. Go to Nucleus web admin page 192.168.1.xxx: 1.-stop the server software.

  9. From Nucleus web admin page 192.168.1.xxx: format new SSD with nucleus.

  10. From Nucleus web admin page 192.168.1.xxx: 2.-stop the server software.

  11. Copy music files across the network from the storage backup location (PC) to new internal SSD in Nucleus.
    If asked for a username and password, use «Guest» for both.

  12. From Nucleus web admin page 192.168.1.xxx: restart server software.

  13. Go to Nucleus log-in page: Log in of Nucleus (Go to Settings, General and click Login)

  14. restore Roon database

Those instructions look good, most importantly:

  1. shut down from the admin web page 2
  2. physically swap the drive 1
  3. power up, initialize from the admin webpage 1, and copy your music over

Many thanks and best regards

Michael
.

Alternatively, try the Roon Knowledge base.

Dear All,

to the SSD’s,
at the moment I have one 8 TB SSD and two 4 TB SSD’s
which I would like to use in the Qnap server,
HDD’s I have none.

The Qnap operating system will be on a separate intern 1TB SSD latch memory, so that the music files are on externally removable disks in the Qnap.

I would leave the data base on the Roon Nucleus in any case and only back it up on the Qnap, on a separate intern 1TB SSD latch storage, as a backup.
As far as I understand it here, it is located on the internal 128 GB SSD memory latch of the Roon Nucleus,
is that right?.

OK,
if my network is the bottleneck and cannot transfer 10 Gbps of data to the Roon Nucleus, connection problems may occur,
I have understood that so far.

Can the Qnap, via USB-C to USB-A 3.0 cable connection, deliver the music data / music files to the Roon Nucleus?

Or formulated the other way round,

can the Roon Nucleus, via USB-A to USB-C 3.0 cable connection, get the music data / music files from Qnap?

My goal is,
to run the Roon Nucleus without the music files with the server Qnap with the music files for the purpose of memory expansion.

How can this be realised in your opinion?

Many thanks and best regards

Michael
.

The Roon database is on the boot NVMe drive of your Nucleus. This may be what you refer to as the “128 GB latch drive”. The database is not stored on the same drives that hold your music files.

Yes. But the music on that drive would be inexcusable unless you install it into a USB case and update the location in Roon’s Storage Settings.

Steps 1 through 4 plus the “Remove” part of 5 are relevant.

Again, the migration is needlessly complicated by attempting to reuse the 4 TB SSDs in the Qnap.

Instead, place both in external USB cases and attach them to the Qnap via USB. Load the Qnap with several 8 TB (or larger) hard disk drives (not SSDs). Once Qnap is installed and configured with some sort of RAID, create a new share for your music library.

Next, use the rsync command (as I described earlier) to make an exact copy of your music files to the shared folder in the Qnap. Sync the content of each SSD to a different folder so that you can update the location of each in Roon.

Use your old SSDs for backups or some other project. They do not belong in the NAS.

Dear David_Snyder,

Thank you for your information on this topic.

OK,
as the Roon Database is located on the internal memory latch of the Nucleus Operating System,
I can remove the internal 4 TB SSD with the music files from the Roon Nucleus.

Sorry for the 2nd misunderstanding,
the internal Roon Nukleus 4 TB SSD with the music files was previously formatted by Roon and this Roon format is not reliably readable by Windows, according to @Danny.
Therefore this SSD is re-formatted by Windows after disassembly from the Roon Nucleus, the old music files are deleted.
These music files are documented 1:1 on the Windows Master SSD’s in NTFS format and can be copied 1:1 to an 8 TB SSD in Qnap, so that Roon sees the same music files as on the internal 4 TB SSD.

The external USB-A 4 TB SSD, with the other music files, was formatted before the first use of Windows NTFS and can therefore be installed in the Qnap in its present form without any changes.
Here too, Roon will see the music files again 1:1,
also this 4 TB SSD can be installed in the Qnap without any changes,
what’s wrong with that?

One aspect,
which I do not yet understand,
why not install SSD’s in the server Qnap?
although Qnap does not deny this in any way and has even provided SSD’s and HDD’s for this purpose, the Qnap also works with SSD’s, according to Qnap.

Have a nice Sunday evening and thank you very much.

Best regards

Michael
.

Adding a minor note to what has already been said on storing music on a NAS versus internally/attached to a Nucleus…

Other users have pointed out that new music added to a NAS is not immediately available in Roon on a Nucleus – you have to setup scheduled rescans in Roon to find them. Because of this, your NAS will never sleep. This may not be an issue for you but you should be aware of it if you were planning on your NAS sleeping when not in use.

I’ve not studied the Qnap docs, but I’m 99.7% certain this is not the case. The Qnap will almost certainly want to reformat any drives (SSD or HDD) that you insert into it.

I guess give this your best shot. Since you are not open to using HDDs in your new NAS, there’s not much more I can offer to help. Good luck.

IIRC, the default automatic rescan interval is every 4 hours, which should allow the NAS to sleep some. This interval can be increased to every 24 hours or only at startup if desired.

I don’t need periodic rescans since I always force a rescan when I add new content. I imagine many NAS users do the same.

This was a comment for the OP.

Meta comment: I’ve found private messages handy for that sort of thing in this forum. Just click on the user’s name and pick “Message”

Because it is a waste of money given that they can’t be used to their full potential that way. They will not be any faster than regular hard disks, which cost a small fraction of their price per Tb. The noise and heat difference is also irrelevant, because the processor in the NAS would be the main driver for heat and noise, so that’s something you’d want away from your listening environment anyway. Yes, there’s a reliability advantage, but if you’re running a bunch of disks in a NAS, which, again, is not a good idea with Roon for reasons others have explained, then you can pretty much achieve identical uptime with regular hard drives.

As I and others suggested, your SSD’s would be MUCH better used directly attached. If having everything on one USB port is important to you, this can be accomplished with a $75 OWC enclosure, but that is not as good a solution than just putting them in two $15 enclosures (which offer redundancy of controllers).

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you can also find similar controllers that will raid mirror… it’ll give you fault tolerance (but no backup)

but yah… I’m with some others on this topic… the NAS is a relic of the past – there are much better solutions now.

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I would install the largest SSD inside my Nucleus that the Nucleus will take. Then, I would install two of the largest possible SSD’s in two USB enclosures and attach them to my Nucleus. I would do scheduled back-up’s of the Roon database to a network connected computer.