Roon Radio - Thumbs Up / Down Button

This feature does not make sense…how can you give a thumbs up/down to a track you never heard?

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That is exactly my point here… but as Mike explained it is used to build a queue but then it shouldn’t be on the Now Playing screen, just on the queue screen.

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Either way, how can I build a queue of music that I never heard?

I guess people can come up with a reason for just about anything.

Thumbs are just asking you if you want it in the queue. You are using this primarily to let Roon suggest songs to prospectively populate a queue with their suggestions. Some of the songs Roon Radio suggests will be familiar to you. If you don’t know the song and you add it nobody is going to die if its a bad choice. If you do nothing at all, the queue is fed automatically as it has done before. So the thumbs at least give you the option to take out things you know you don’t want. You can always use playlists to choose stuff you are familiar with. So it’s about giving you options.

At least in the previous version of Roon, this sort of good/bad function in the queue was just used as information for Roon to refine their algorithm for the broader user base. It’s my understanding this does not carry serious weight on how Roon chooses music specifically for you in the future.

The most impacting factors on what you hear are 1) what you play, 2) what you own (and favorites), and 3) Roon’s algorithm. I doubt Roon would offer much in the way of specifics, much as Google keeps their algorithms proprietary. But from what Roon has said, playing is more important than what you just have in your library. The algorithm is refined from broader user experience, which would include how you rate the Roon Radio choices when they are played.

Goes back to the topic of the post.

rate Roon choices when they are played…ie after/while playing

rate Roon choices before they are played…should not be an option.

Agree - Just to add a compromise view:
rate Roon choices when they are played…ie after/while playing - on the PlayNOW screen
rate Roon choices before they are played…should not be an option - Unless it is the queue screen

I am still puzzled how the algorithm works and how I can influence it. For me that is an important question to be answered, because I have to mindful what I click and do because it might or might not influence the picks by Radio. I actually only use Roon because of the Radio feature, which I really like.

Hi @Jan_Reinmueller
This particular post and the rest of the thread goes into some details about how the ‘thumbs’ affect the algorithm.

Also, if you are not actually building a queue (sequentially hitting thumbs up/down to add tracks to a queue selected by Roon Radio), but just listening to Roon Radio, you have this option:
Click on the Title/Artist showing on the middle/bottom of the screen. That will bring up a view like this:


As you see, it will show either an artist view or the song’s lyrics (if they are available). Of note, there are the thumbs up/down icons to rate the song as it plays if you wish.
If you go to Settings>Setup>Enable Roon Radio Notifications and enable it, you’ll get a popup 30 seconds before the end of each song telling you what is coming up. You can then thumbs up/down that song if you want, or wait for it to play and do it then.

@grossmsj Thank you so much for the explanation - very good.

Regarding this:
Click on the Title/Artist showing on the middle/bottom of the screen. That will bring up a view like this:

Where exactly did you clicked to get the thumbs up and down? In my earlier post you will realise that I am not getting the same view unless you are saying I have to click somewhere specifically that it pop’s up.

Really appreciate the support.

On the bottom of the Queue screen. Click on the area I have circled. The screen that comes up has a number of different views. If you click on the same area on the Play screen you’ll set the same result.
This is on a PC. Mac is probably the same. You’ll likely have less options on a phone.

Hey @grossmsj sorry for late reply but I was traveling. I am not getting the thumbs up / down on my screen. Do I need to switch this on, maybe? See below.

I believe it is because you have Roon Radio limited to your library.
Normally there is a slider switch at the bottom of the Roon Radio column, just above your System Output icon (bottom screenshot). If the icon were there, you switch it over to turn off the Library limitation.
You can also switch the “Limit Roon Radio to Library” via the three dots on the right side of the Queue Line (At the top of the screen on your first screenshot).
Do you have a Service like Tidal or Qobuz? If you do, are you signed it?
If you don’t have that service you may not be able to make the choice, since you only have a local library.

That might be the reason (Qobuz not signed in at the moment) but shouldn’t Roon be smart enough and even curate music on my local library and give me the ability to rate? @support Is Roon Radio thumbs up / down supported when it comes to “limit to local radio only”?

Support may or may not weigh in on this. But my understanding from the link I referred to before is that ‘thumbing’ is not viewed as helpful in local libraries. Hence, it isn’t supported as a means to feed back to Roon when the track is being played solely from a local library. Roon feels it needs ‘big data’ to get quality user feedback to adjust its algorithm.
It’s somewhat confusing ‘the thumbs’ are still there on the Roon Radio screen when you are in local library mode. In that context it’s being used to build a queue, not adjust Roon’s algorithm.

Really appreciate your comment @grossmsj - Still would be nice to get a confirmation from @support f your hypothesis is correct.

Hey @support is it correct that thumbs up / down doesn’t work on local library only (no streaming service added)?

Just want to get this confirmed and close off the topic.

Thx.

The “thumbs up” and “thumbs down” help us improve Radio’s selections, so you will only get them on content selected by Roon.

The content can come from your local library or not, but you won’t be able to give feedback on content you queued yourself – the thumbs only allow for feedback on tracks that Roon picked.


This is correct too – in this case, the feedback isn’t helping tune selections in Valence, it’s more about helping you"pre-approve" a queue, like if you want to line up a bunch of music before your dinner party starts, or the shower use case Brian mentioned here:

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And that is great feature. Thanks for that

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Indeed - it’s an extremely useful feature for building up a list rapidly. Please don’t remove it (which is what I interpret Brian’s comment as doing)

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Indeed I filter roon radio for circumstance from the same seed track or artist and the thumbs method is great for an hour of moderated suggestions.

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Clear now.

Clear as well.

I think people like the feature a lot but as you stated the icon itself should change to something more intuitive / obvious.

thanks for clarification, very interesting topic.