My point is simply that… either you give customers the ability to offer ideas, in which case simply acknowledge them (Every other company which offers the ability for feedback I know does this), OR you don’t offer the format to feedback, period.
Right, and my suggestions could do that.
To my mind, it would be more viable to make suggestions and bug reports 2 separate and clearly discrete things and to make it clear that suggestions are NOT just feature requests, they can be also to refine what’s there.
Either this or take the whole format of suggestions and requests and bug reports off this forum and use 2 feedback forms on the site.
Personally I am not specifically bothered about feedback viz build status or what’s being developed. It is what it is. Roon is a growing company and does make improvements. That’s great! But for me it’s just a lack of any response to acknowledge stuff being highlighted, that’s all. Although what you are suggesting would be nice of course, but I can see it going more in the opposite direction as Roon grows, and customer base also. I’m just asking for a bit more of a “pro” and consistent response specifically (even if automated somewhat) which reflects the growth in customer base.
There, I’ve gone and been drawn back into the discussion when I said I was done
(The truth is out there but not necessarily here)
Sallah, don’t leave us! It could just be a busy week at Roon…
I personally think that an automated “Thanks for the suggestion” every time someone posts in the Feature Request section would be tedious and unnecessary. Now, maybe a permanent sticky post at the top of Feature Request section that pre-thanks anyone for their input and defines what they should expect from said input, would be the right way to go, imho.
The Feature Request section, as I see it, functions like a more open Suggestion Box. One that allows other users to comment (both for and against) your proposed suggestion. The back and forth by users on a request provides insight for the devs, like the suggestions popularity, or, its use case as to why it should be added (just because someone makes a request does not mean it is a good one or feasible).
I also see the Feature Request section as an informal, “Hey, I think the software should do this…”, in a discussion amongst friends rather than something heavily formalized. I realize that you are arguing for just such a formalization.
Some way of keeping like requests together. I was musing that maybe sub-sections of the Feature Request would be a way of focusing like requests together. However, people are still reading the old requests. I just got a like a couple days ago for this one from July of 2015:
Fair enough. If there’s some protocol which is clear to all participants then that’s cool too. I do think there should be a separate section for debugging & refining, which are clearly separate to Feature Requests also. And imho this should be acknowledged and nurtured. Customers are basically doing the work of beta testers in this regard and for detailed pointers to assist Roon to iron out these issues to be apparently ignored is what irks (me).
Thanks for your reply, and considering the issues in any case Daniel.
Thanks for your support. Even if I was the only one who felt this way, I just wanted to get it off my chest, lol. However, it is clear that I’m not alone. It’s too easy to get precious and overprotective about a beloved product, or the people who develop it, and cut them slack by saying “oh but they do work hard or but they did reply here about this…look…” but it does them nor the product no favors
Is anyone listing a problem or offering a solution, or is this just a place to figure out how to do the mentioned without mentioning. I’m a lifetime, love roon. The only bug I have is when my iMac as a remote boots, sometimes roon closes or I need to reboot the remote, or it’s fine. No biggie but that’s all from me.
(The truth is out there but not necessarily here)
The actual requests for enhancements and fixes are in different threads under Software. My take on this is that some users, and I sympathize with this viewpoint, are getting somewhat fatigued with the “wait for the black or white smoke from the Sistine Chapel” sort of feel with some of our desired enhancements.
Roon is no longer brand new. The concept that it’s a raw product with a brilliant core of features doesn’t really apply anymore (still brilliant, just no more excuse for being raw in places). Users who discovered Roon 2, 3, 4 years ago who thought, maybe even were allowed to believe, that some of the Roon features would be developed to maturity are losing hope that will ever happen and would like some word from Roon on their chosen direction.
Some of this is based on assumptions resulting from experiences with other software evolution, not on what Roon has said. Example: when MS Word for IOS first came out, the only cloud storage it could use was Microsoft’s own service and many were already committed to other cloud storage services. While having Word on an iPad was great, that really limited its utility. Most users assumed that Microsoft would eventually make it work with other cloud services and this was a valid assumption, and it happened not too long after. Because Word was fairly crippled without it. Same with some of the Roon features - they’re clearly half done and what can be frustrating is that just a little more is needed to bring those over the finish line. But when it’s 2, 3, 4 years later, you begin to lose the faith.
It’s a little venting and belly aching for sure. But at the same time, it is important for Roon to have the temperature of the community it has built. Not necessarily “what have you done for me lately?” but rather “can you please finish what you started for me 3 years ago?”
My sense is that Roon is a very lean shop. I think I notice that whenever an update is pending, most every Roonie stops broadcasting except for Noris. During these periods, they (generally) could care less about new feature requests or even bug reports. That’s because all current changes are baked into the pie. So they generally stop responding. That’s what is happening now, methinks.
But, as I examine my own waning interest in this forum, why am I less interested in sharing observations and improvements? Its simple for me: I’m not on the same wavelength as Roon. Things that interest me (improved metadata, UI polish, display polish) aren’t the things that interests Roon (sound quality, expanded hardware, multiple streaming sources).
I also have a real problem with “the long-lived WTFs” that never seem to go away. These are problems, big and small, that strike you odd and strange that any software company would allow to persist for any length. Why would I point out little nits when these WTFs go unfixed for month/years?
I just spent an hour re-reading all the Feature Requests posted prior to Jan 1, 2017. It was an interesting read. A lot of the current forum buzz was not the majority of requests back then. Different users with different needs? Maybe?
What I did notice, though, was that, back then, it seemed that time was spent by Roon appending notes to Feature Request titles, like “On Roadmap”, “Delivered in 1.3”, or “Not Ever Going to Happen” (the last one my own paraphrase). Those title updates I think provided proof to the users that their voices were being heard, acted upon, etc etc. I wonder why they slowed… maybe to time intensive?
I did try to excite a sense of “finishing up stuff” here…
I think your comments are both right, James and John. It’s getting on now… time wise and its more of a lean ship than we imagine. I really hope,so as not to alienate old customers and to maintain new ones, they will consider diverting some dev time to the “wtf’s” and package the customer service side a bit better. Ie… will listen to the wind a bit more, lol.
Daniel you surprise me a little, in the sense that you appear to be as in the dark as we are as to any goings on behind the scenes at Roon . However it all points to an inevitable development to the sense of disenfranchisement from the customer base now and a need to modify the format for customer services to allow for this lack of response; if it was too labor intensive as you suggest.
However, Im not hoping for that, John. Just a “thanks for your request/advise/bug report” every time - it’s not a resource issue; it’s simple. A moderator can easily do it on behalf of roon, a quick paste… “thanks for your comment, it’s been logged with Roon… blah blah…”. It’s a) courteous and b) shows that every issue pointed out to Roon is noted. Call me old fashioned. It wouldn’t add more than a few mins a week to moderator time especially if the following applies also…
Then collate the Bugs , Issues and Requests better and you’re done (and will help enormously when stock-replying acknowledgements above). It ain’t rocket science, just tips for improvement of customer morale generally.
At the moment I hope they are focusing on fixing the slow search issue thats been introduced since 1.6 as it’s not going away. This is a major issue and is really undermining mine and a lot of others Roon experience of late.
There are three main groups of volunteers in relation to Roon:
Mods, who manage the Forum;
Knowledge Base editors, who edit the KB; and
Alpha Testers, who get experimented on at the very end of the development cycle.
There are also other purpose specific volunteers who assist with translations or extensions etc.
SFAIK none of these groups have any input into decisions about what to develop and how to prioritise development.
Unless it’s specific to a project they are involved with the way those volunteers make suggestions about product development is in the Feature Request section. At least, that’s what I do.
In relation to bugs I think Support has massively changed in the last 18 months. Roon staff are hands on in Support and bug reports are followed up and investigated. A bug in this context is a feature that is not working as intended.