Short answer - no. Roon’s volume control works with sufficient bit-depth as to be audibly transparent.
A pre-amp will generally use analogue gain via a potentiometer which can have a significant and audible channel imbalance and over time, potentiometers become audibly “scratchy”. Plus there’s the addition of noise and distortion. Some preamps have relay switched gain with precision resistors, e.g. Benchmark LA4/HPA4, but you’re still relying on analogue electronics.
Any analogue preamp is going to introduce compromises, not improvements, unless your Poweramp needs more gain on its input.
Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t understand the engineering.
I use a pre-amp on my rig. It’s gain allows me to run my power amps at their lowest gain setting which minimises noise and distortion. Provided the DAC has enough output to satisfy the power amp’s sensitivity, you don’t need a pre-amp
Again, depends on the power amp. Naim power amps, for one, expect a specific controlled impedance on their input and apparently don’t like a high-bandwidth input signal. The whole thing is essentially an integrated amp that happens to be split into several boxes, and no special provisions are made to make it work in a different environment. Direct into the power amp may or may not work depending on the properties of the source. Specific other power amps may or may not be more accommodating, it always depends on the design.
I’m not sure I understand this. Since a power amp is voltage-driven, as long as its input impedance is high enough and the preamp’s/DAC’s output impedance is low enough, it should work just fine.
I honestly cannot trust the Roon software enough to reliably limit the volume 100% of the time on a long term basis. Many people here will remember the issues with the variable volume controls on iPhones. The last thing I would want is Roon to introduce a broken “new feature” that has the ability to blow my speakers due to a poorly coded release.
Naim even used to void their warranty when you were mixing their pre or power amps with other brands, their literature waxing lyrical about special matching.
As a funny anecdote, their NAP140 power amp output stage was known for going into oscillation when used with low inductance speaker cables, because they decided to omit a zobel network.
I quickly skimmed some Naim pre/amp test reports and by their low output to high input impedance design, they’re like most competitors, not dependant on …
Indeed, there are manufacturers that match pre-out to amp input impedances, but Naim doesn’t seem to be one of them…
It’s in their FAQ to this day and they still have a recommended inductance and capacitance envelope although the Classic and Uniti amps are more tolerant, but one can still make them overheat with litz and braided speaker cables.
New Classic seems to have changed this
I seem to recall that one of the Naim designers on the forum said so, but I’m not too bothered by the details. Point being for this thread, not every power amp does well with just any source directly into it. Follow the manufacturer’s recommendations.
Despite what some have commented on here, a preamp may be the most important component in your chain. Hate the fact that so much information is handed out as a blanket, know it all, can’t be any other way types statements. It’s a disservice to the community IMO.
Since you don’t mention your amp make and model, what level you’re at component wise is not clear but if you get a preamp that’s got good synergy with your amp, it will transform your chain. Never cheap out on a pre.
That said, if you can’t say what you don’t like or are unhappy about in your current system, FOMO is not a good reason to throw more money at something. Think about what more you’re looking for from your chain and go from there.
Thanks for all the contradicting contributions to my post. After speaking with the electrical engineer who built my amp, any preamp will only “change” or “color” the purity of the signal. This goes to the concept of “Less is More”.
First, go to a major audio show like AXPONA or High End Munich and you’ll see that the vast majority of manufacturers are using a preamp in their systems. Second, even if a preamp does “color” the sound it can (and often does) result in greater enjoyment of the music. For instance, adding more drive and a bit more tone are good things in my book, especially with digital that is sometimes a bit thin and dry. And who’s to say some of the tone a preamp adds isn’t putting back some that was lost in translation.
Anyway, to each his own. Ultimately nobody can tell somebody else what makes their music sound better to them. I’m just trying to add some reference points for the benefit of OP and anyone else that is interested in this topic.
Instead of a pre-amp, a shunt stepped attenuator volume control could be used. It doesn’t sound like any gain is needed, so a pre-amp for a single source purely to control volume is like using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut.
Well said. I was about to point out that if the signal is already at line level - as it is usually the case with DACs - the pream will mostly work in attenuation mode. This is different than having a mic or instrument or a turntable preamp, where it needs to bring a weak signal up to line level without introducing significant noise. I think the importance of a preamp between a DAC and a power amp in terms of SQ is a bit exaggerated.
Yes 100%. Like many other forums fate, this community forum has delved into much of the same amp’d up ego, arm chair techno/engineer that don’t know what they’re talking about and get their “facts” corrected constantly by ones that do - many of whom have checked out because its soooo tiresome.
Really, it’s the times we are in and some just have zero self control.
The Qutest will output from 1 to 3 volts with 2 volts default. I output 1volt from the Qutest to my preamp because it matches best with my phono stage volume. 3 volts is probably enough for most amps. As for coloration and measurements, I’m interested in the having the ability to make the sound the way I want it, every time. Jmho
2 volts should be sufficient for single-ended inputs on most power amps. I have no argument with your approach. I prefer to keep my front end transparent and allow the speakers and room to express any sonic signature.
James_I
(The truth is out there but not necessarily here)
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I no longer use a preamp in my main system, and even route my turntable into roon. The system is amazingly simple. There are a few quirks that are annoying when using analog inputs but I generally listen to digital files/stream, and LPs sound way better using ADC and then room correction then they do with a pure analog path. No preamp also means money can be spent in other places of course.
I really believe roon as a software defined preamplifier should be an official thing. They could build in a dedicated analog input function and allow people/companies to create onboards the same way as we see with endpoints.
Roon’s volume control is 32 bit. You have to turn the volume down a long way before you lose anything.
EDIT:
SoTA SINAD is around 21 bit (126dB). 32 bit to 21 bit is a reduction of 11 bits (20log 2^11 = 66dB). You have to turn your volume down by 66dB before you start to encroach on the best SINAD available. 66dB reduction on a volume knob takes the music down to just barely audible. At just barely audible, you still have 21 bits of resolution at your disposal. Nothing to worry about!
A preamp has two functions - to provide input switching and to provide gain.
If you have no need to switch different inputs, i.e. only one source and you’re signal is already at line level, you need neither of the above.
What you need in this case is attenuation. Provided your source’s output impedance is compatible with your amplifier’s input impedance, volume control via Roon, or a passive volume control is all that’s required
A preamp doesn’t have magical “sound improving” properties. At best it can have noise and distortion levels sufficiently low compared to the power amp to not degrade the signal. It can never “improve” the signal.
After speaking with the electrical engineer who built my amp, any preamp will only “change” or “color” the purity of the signal. This goes to the concept of “Less is More”.