I have a similar issue to what I’ve seen others post here regarding DSD support in the Pro-Ject Stream Box S2 Ultra in Roon. I just got mine yesterday, and I’m having some issues with DSD playback.
I’ll attach screen captures of my playback settings in the Stream Box S2 Ultra, but I have the mixer type set to None (although it sometimes reverts back to Hardware for some reason). When I configure it to use DSD Direct, DSD music gets converted to PCM and sent to the DAC (more on the DAC later). When I set it to DoP, it works, but my DSD256 albums get downsampled to DSD128. Not the end of the world, but odd, given that both DACs I’ve tried this with support DSD256, and I did not have this issue with my iFi NEO Stream and this same DAC. Most of my native DSD albums are in DSD256–that’s my preference for native DSD albums.
I’ve tested this with two different DACs. The main setup that I’ve used for two other streamers is the DAC in my Marantz SA-KI Ruby SACD player (via the only, USB, output on the Stream Box S2 Ultra). That DAC is recognized by Roon, but for some reason it only lists support for DSD64 and DSD128 in Roon, even though all the documentation I’ve found for this SACD player’s DAC says that it supports DSD256 (and again, this downsampling didn’t happeen with my iFi NEO Stream, which has other issues).
I also tested with the Chord Qutest DAC I use with my headphone rig on my laptop. The results are exactly the same, although I don’t see a DSD setting in Roon for this DAC. It still converts to PCM when I try to use DSD Direct, and it still gets downsampled to DSD128 when I use DoP. This DAC handles DSD256 without downsampling just fine when used in my headphone rig on my laptop using Roon.
So something seems to be broken in either the Stream Box S2 Ultra’s handling of DSD, or in Roon’s implementation of it. I would greatly prefer to be able to use DSD Direct, but DoP isn’t a deal-breaker to me. I am bothered by the downsampling of my DSD256 albums. This is my fourth attempt to try to find a streamer that will properly and without annoying bugs (as I have with the iFi NEO Stream) support native DSD playback via Roon.
The Stream Box S2 Ultra says it’s on the current firmware, which shows:
System Version: 1.079 Released: Wed Jul 13 17:22:02 CEST 2022
Hardware Firmware Version: 115 Hardware Revision 6
I have the same streamer - DSD Native no longer works - it used to then a software update broke it and I had to switch to DoP. Not sure why the DSD256 downsampling - it could be a limit with DoP? My DAC only supports DSD128 so I don’t see this particular issue.
It’s because the dac can’t handle higher pcm to encapsulate DSD256 it needs 512/24 to be able to handle it over DoP.
As for the Kai Ruby it needs to use USB A Input for the higher DSD256 but that’s native DSD not DoP, it only supports DSD128 for DoP as it’s limited to 384/24 pcm.
Thanks for the reply. So it sounds like I may just have to live with this. Everything I’ve heard from reputable sources indicates that DoP shouldn’t cause a hit to sound quality, but it would be nice if I could get DSD256 support. I see in Roon that from my laptop to the Chord Qutest DAC, it has to use DoP, but it doesn’t downsample DSD256, so I think this is specific to the Pro-Ject. I’ve heard that DoP has to be used when sending DSD over USB, at least when Windows, MacOS, or Linux is involved (my laptop is Windows 11).
Given that the last firmware update was in 2022 (at least, based on what I’m seeing on mine), I’m guessing firmware updates aren’t really being pushed to this device anymore. Maybe eventually I’ll look into a Lumin device, but man would I be angry if I paid that much for a streamer with USB output only to have DSD issues with it.
Thanks. That makes sense, so I guess this is just how DSD will work on this device. Not that I would likely ever hear the difference between DSD128 and 256, anyway. Now if Pro-Ject could just fix DSD Direct, but I’m not going to hold my breath. Going forward, I’ll buy DSD albums in DSD128. No reason to take up twice the space and bandwidth when it won’t be used (although I do get DSD256 when using the headphone rig).
Even with its shortcomings I love the little stream box - the designer left Pro-Ject some time ago so I am not expecting updates anytime soon - the sound and reliability are excellent for the price. Was listed as a recommended component in a previous Stereophile list.
Seems like a great solution for someone who already has a good DAC. I wish I had found it earlier instead of messing around with streamers that have mediocre DACs and other features I don’t need (and annoying bugs). I just need Roon support, DSD support, and a good USB output. This appears to have all that at a price that isn’t insane. Now that I understand what’s going on with DoP, I’m good with it.
I am still curious about DSD Direct, because what I’ve heard in the past is that you have to use DoP to send DSD over USB. I’m curious if DSD Direct shouldn’t even be in the config options, but people like you have said it used to work.
It did used to work - I remember and if you search here and on the Volumio forums you will find that the DoP limitation is there. But it’s still DSD even with DoP you are hearing so no loss of sound quality. Probably should not be a config option though.
Doesn’t play DSD, the moment you input a DSD signal into that DAC, the DAC converts it TO PCM and then does the digital to analog conversion. The only Chord DAC which actually plays DSD is the Dave.
Nope, Windows plays native DSD just fine as long as you have the DAC’s ASIO drivers installed. I’m listening to native DSD 256 right now.
I’m actually going to give this a try (this Pro-Ject is just a Pi underneath with extra work to reduce noise, anyway). I’ll do a listening comparison to see if the potential extra noise in the Raspberry Pi 5 affects the sound, and hopefully it will actually send native DSD to my Marantz DAC, which handled DSD256 natively just fine with the iFi NEO Stream (which, unfortunately, suffers from bugs which they don’t seem interested in fixing).
worth a try - I have 3 Rpi4’s in different zones using RoPieee and they work well - have never compared them on the main system tho - curious what you find out
That’s my thought. They’re not expensive, even with all the extra stuff like the case, power supply, SIM, etc. It’s supposed to arrive Sunday. If it gets here early enough, I plan to set it up and start listening that day, so hopefully I can make an update by the end of the day, assuming this thread doesn’t get closed before then.
I actually ended up getting two different RP 5 kits. The one that arrived first came with a very cheap plastic case that keeps wanting to come apart, but that’s what I’m using for now. The ports on the standard RP5 are also pretty much junk. They feel extremely cheap, and I hear cracking/creaking noises from the board when I plug things in and out (which typically takes way too much effort). I have a much nicer aluminum case that actually screws together that I’m going to put on the other RP5 I ordered and just swap the microSD card over when I get it put together. I’m hoping that maybe that will hold the RP5 board in place better for connecting/disconnecting cables, too.
I hear no significant difference in sound quality compared to the Pro-Ject. It may just be that I haven’t done enough A/B listening, but so far on the playlist I’ve been listening to (and I went back several tracks with the Pi), I hear no difference. As expected, the DSD Direct setting works perfectly, with no conversion to DoP and the resulting limit of DSD128 being necessary to my Marantz SA-KI Ruby’s DAC.
I love the fact that I’m in full control over the version of Volumio I’m running. No more broken, slightly customized, versions from iFi or Pro-Ject that stop getting updates. For now, I’ve turned off automatic updates, because I don’t want a system that works flawlessly to suddenly stop working.
I opened up the Pro-Ject hoping to find a microSD card I could just swap out (although I probably would have been disappointed in Pro-Ject for doing such a thing), but alas, it would appear storage is integrated. It sure has a much higher quality build–no comparison. I’d love to figure out how to hack this thing and put my own install of Volumio for RP on it. I’ll be working on that, but I’m not expecting it to be (easily) possible.
Great to hear - I might experiment with one of the Pi4s in the main system but will most likely just leave the Pro-Ject in place as everything is currently working to my satisfaction there. Good to know the effort with the Pi5 was successful - can you return the Pro-Ject?
I probably could return it, but I’m still on the fence about using a vanilla RP5. That discussion I linked verifies what the reviews said about the Pro-Ject’s custom and quieter hardware. Just because I haven’t yet heard a difference in sound quality doesn’t mean it’s not there, even if it’s subtle. I may do more listening tests. The fact is DSD is a small portion of the music I listen to. Really struggling with this decision!
In my case I have the Pro-Ject connected to a Matrix X-SPDIF 2 with Linear Power Supply so get I2S into my PS Audio DAC. Whereas the Pis are just straight USB. Have to say I like the project sound in this configuration but the Pis do a great job as additional zones in the kitchen and elsewhere and they are also very compact. I would do some more listening.
