I don’t disagree, except to note the fact that I was playing HLS streams via BBC and no Apple devices or servers were involved. So it’s not HLS in particular.
If you look at the Wikipedia page I cited above, there is a long list of HLS player implementations from all over, not just Apple.
2 Likes
I’m not saying that HLS is just Apple it’s not but with the files in this format they are restricting it’s actual use outside of the Apple playback ecosystem, which is a DRM of sorts. Be interesting to see if they would play outside of it.
Yes I know that not the point I am making.
Understand your points. I will say that Sonos is able to “see” and play the same files that appear to be HLS format through the Sonos app. I presume Sonos gave up a lot to be one of the few that can do this in their own app.
I also think it odd that Apple are bashed (rightly) for their use of DRM for things but others like Meridian get a pass almost for their DRM with the MQA file format. Auralic did an op. piece on MQA.
1 Like
MQA has had way more bashing than Apple from most of the hifi community. . MQA though can be played in any player that supports flac you might not get the hires but it plays. Good to know these do play on something else though.
Sonos are the only manufacturer Apple has deemed worthy of Apple Music support so maybe why it has no issues with them as the files as they are. Other devices support HLS streaming over HTTP as as it’s used all the time but likely don’t expect it locally even though reading up on it it the playlist in the package can be a URL or just a file name for local stuff.
It does seem an odd choice to use this format, but then Apple is known for making life difficult outside of its eco system.
1 Like
Maybe apply pressure on Apple to integrate. It only took them forever to finally start using USB-C. When people complain, Apple will listen, the insistence on yet another format is there solely for control.
Wish that would do it, but why is Apple going to change its service to adapt to Roon? Like what’s in it for them to do so? I think I’d read a stat where like there are the 100k Roon subscribers and there are 75M Apple Music subscribers, like I’d love to see it, but it’s never happening, rather others will adapt as best they can to use what Apple gives them
The question is why does Apple have to use a proprietary file format. Not why they should adapt to Roon.
Roon subscribers are not Apple’s target demographic and vice versa. Millions of users doesn’t mean they’re right, again USB-C today, but Apple made a lot of money selling proprietary connectors. If Apple used had a clue, they’d complain but since the walled garden ecosystem is something Apple users buy into, they’re okay with proprietary even if it’s substandard. It’s been Apple’s business model for decades.
DRM is all bad, lots do it, Sony, Meridian, region locking for DVDs, etc. just greed at the end of the day. I agree numbers don’t mean they’re right, rather the numbers (in their mind) will justify the approach (an approach I think is backwards and wrong). They must have a pretty good idea what they’re doing with the yuge mountain of cash they have
I’m a bit of an Apple fanboi and an iOS developer (albeit not really active in that scene anymore), as full disclosures go.
Why does Apple use proprietary stuff? Usually because they have a vision and that stuff fulfills it. Getting some money out of it was an added bonus. Back when Apple introduced the Lightning connector (to replace the old 30-pin), USB-C wasn’t a thing yet. Looking at it, Lightning was a marvel of engineeing… small, reversable. Apple did what it had to do without waiting for a world-wide body of engineers representing various companies to take its time in designing something.
On the streaming side, without having read into the matter much, I think HLS is a actually a format, separat from the protocol. I’d dig into the documentation, if any, when I can find some time
4 Likes
Purchase downloads somewhere other than Apple. Problem solved.
1 Like
Yep, problem is iTunes was what a lot of us started with and are still happy with. Plus others have limited options or have issues with hosting your purchased older content. Case in point I bought two albums off of 7 Digital in FLAC, now for some random reason they don’t have access to it, so I can never re download it if I needed tok
HLS is actually a streaming protocol built on top of HTTP. Basically, you have a playlist that’s just an m3u file which references “segments”, each of which is an MP4 file. The player just pulls them down one after another and plays them gapless. This lets them stream video as well as audio, depending on what you put in the MP4 files. If the playlist URLs are “file:” instead of “http:”, you can play content locally without a network connection.
See the RFC referenced above. So they are really re-purposing existing standards (m3u and MP4) to support streaming. And documenting what they’re doing.
3 Likes
That is an issue that can face any download store, even Apple. And the reason is usually contracts and licensing.
Agreed, I should have made my point more clear. Was trying to suggest that all services have issues, but that really Apple made it mainstream with the iPod, iTunes, etc.
Total agreement. I would recommend using flac or mqa as download files and skip Apple music.
You agree with a false statement. As it’s been pointed out before, it is not a proprietary format.
Also, this is a thread where someone who pays for Roon just like you, has asked for a feature.
It’s a forum so you can quip in anytime you want, but are you really being helpful by telling them that they should change their (musical) life because you don’t agree with their choices?
I didn’t even realise that you had the indecency to suggest MQA as an alternative! Unbelievable.
1 Like
HLS is not a codec. It is not DRM. It is not proprietary or exclusive to Apple.
It is a protocol for streaming audio and video. Other common protocols include DASH and Smooth Streaming for example. They all accomplish the same thing and will be used in different scenarios depending on the device or service.
An HLS package contains small pieces of the complete program (fragments) and these fragments can either be mp4 or ts files containing a few codec options.
Those fragments can be DRM’d or not. That is up to the provider.
Now, why you would have downloaded an HLS package I do not know.
2 Likes