Sorry but did you purchase and down load the files?
If you subscribe to Apple Music, download an un-purchased file (one you can stream and download for off-line use) then it is DRM’ed and is recognized as HLS by OS, but extension is movpkg (double clicking opens Apple TV, go figure). You have no rights to play this outside Apple Music (you are effectively subscribing to a streaming service) so it will not play in any other application (Roon/Audirvana/Qobuz will not open it as they are blocked by DRM). It also gets downloaded to the Apple Music folder
If you purchase the music (the old fashioned way, you know you buy the music not just buy the rights to stream it) and download it, then it gets downloaded to its own folder (by artist & album title), in your music directory, as a m4a extension and is un-DRM’ed and plays in any audio player that supports this format (it is HiRes as it is 44kHz and 24 bit, this seems to be true for Apple Matched items as well which are freshly downloaded)
Just checked this directly with both an Apple Music file, selected at random (which I don’t own), and an Apple Matched file I own. I have no problem here as all streaming services do similar to stop you subscribing, downloading a song, unsubscribing and keeping a playable file - checking Qobuz it does similar, streamed downloads are ‘protected’ and purchased files are not.
As I stated before I did, you know, purchase the example album I referenced. I am also an Apple Music subscriber. The HLS format/Streaming protocol or whatever it is, is not DRM, proprietary or exclusive to Apple as another poster noted earlier in this thread I think it’s used for streaming radio.
Roon itself has no way to see, play, etc files like this hence the request. But if Roon can play radio maybe there is a way?
I get what your saying about options in file format options thru 7 Digital or HD Tracks etc. For whatever reason I went with old uncle Apple here.
I have not tried to play it in another system/player other than iTunes and Roon. I’ll have to see if I can find another free software that could play it and report back.
It might also be worth seeing if you can downloadthe album outside of iTunes app, though I have moved away from it many years ago so cannot advise you further sorry
I never said it was proprietary ever. I hinted they are likely using it as a way to keep playback in the Apple Eco system, they do they same for video purchases. This is DRM lite as very few devices support playing the HLS as a local file they expect to receive this type of content as a web stream as that’s primarily what it was designed form and that’s how they support them so are of little use.to these devices outside of that as you have discovered. It’s Apple trying to have control of what they are played back on. If they really cared about usage outside of this they would be in a fully compatible format such as ALAC.
I responded to a different user, sorry if that was not clear. I know you did not indicate that in your earlier message.
I think the Apple has so much using HLS, Apple TV+, etc. plus other stuff in the pipeline, that they want (and need to standardize around something) to use this approach.
I would be amazed if devices from vendors, Naim, B&W etc. don’t find some way to partake in this. Hence why I’d like to be able to at least play it on Roon, if it is even possible. Like the Sonos app will do it, so there must be some way to do it. Like it or not, Apple Music offering their version of lossless with no (IMO) hi-res tax is a big deal. It forced Amazon to make a change and it will make Spotify do something similar.
Of course they totally want control, just like everyone else does, they (like everyone else) want you in their system and signing up for services etc. as device revenue levels out. Ultimately, all the big players have some form of DRM, Spotify 320k ogg is DRM, MQA for Tidal is DRM, etc. and so on. I don’t agree with the approach, I hate that it is applied everywhere (hello my offline video game needs a constant online connection) but it’s what they as private companies do, right.
I really like Roon, I’m just not paying for another service that doesn’t do everything I need. Like if I’m in iTunes/Music app I’m not jumping to Roon to play something else.
Bill_Janssen
(Wigwam wool socks now on asymmetrical isolation feet!)
50
The sneaky way to do it would be to implement a FUSE filesystem (surprisingly easy to do) that presents stored HLS-format tracks as FLAC files, transcoding on the fly. Then you’d tell Roon it’s a remote directory full of music files, and it would take it from there.
I guess for them it makes distribution easier, but it’s at the expense of customers being able to use them how they might wish. It’s strategic move on their behalf. If it gains traction outside of Apple then I am sure the industry will wake up to it. But as there are so many formats all ready we should be asking do we really need another one.
@cmward_nyc was this a new purchase or a replacement with hires from Apple music. The replacements are only valid whilst you have an Apple sub so may explain why its HLS. Did you play it via Apple Music on Sonos ? When you bought it did it explicitly say it has lossless or did it just give you a choice after purchase to choose the quality. As it might be just one of the replacements as mentioned below which would explain why its HLS as it’s an Apple Music download and not playable outside of Apple Music due to their model. I don’t think you can purchase lossless yet only stream it via Apple Music happy to be proved wrong though.
HTTP live streaming is one or more M3U8 files and a bunch of TS files. As far as I know, no OS identifies any of those as HLS. It’s more a contract between client software (like a Javascript player) and the server regarding the specific flavor of playlist that the M3U8 is.
Whatever the OP has, I think it’s some other format.
Edit: If you look closely at that screenshot, there’s the string “MOVPKG” in the icon. Searching for that comes up with Apple-specific stuff that’s apparently . . . sort of HTTP live streaming and sort of not. It seems to be a container Apple created to package up HLS streams for download (it looks like it contains the M3U8 and all the segments, along with some other metadata), which is a really strange decision. It sounds like those might have DRM on them, too.
I agree about the DRM if you read up there is nothing about being able to purchase lossless from Apple only stream via Apple Music which is subscription based and will be subject to DRM like Spotify Qobuz and Tidal downloads are.and these look to be downloaded Apple Music files. You don’t own the lossless files via Apple your essentially renting them for the time being.
Did you get any workable solution to this question? I can’t find any.
Same issue here. Purchased tracks in iTunes Store long time ago and they played just fine as AAC tracks in Roon, but some of them have been “just out of the blue” transformed into HLS files and those will not play in Roon.
Bill_Janssen
(Wigwam wool socks now on asymmetrical isolation feet!)
56
Can you use iTunes to re-encode them as ALAC or MP3?
I’m unclear what “transformed into HLS files” even means. The container format for HLS is MPEG-2 Transport Stream (file extension .ts). The audio formats supported by HLS are AAC, MP3, AC-3 and EC-3.
If the files were purchased in the iTunes Store, they’re AAC files. Are they now segmented (as would be required for streaming under HLS)? Or are they just encapsulated in an MPEG-2 TS container?
If the latter, there are any number of programs that will extract the AAC from the container. If the former, then rejoining the segments is a bit of a pain (i.e., I don’t know of a general-purpose program that does that).
Bill_Janssen
(Wigwam wool socks now on asymmetrical isolation feet!)
58
If iTunes can play them, I’m assuming it can join them.
All playback requires is that the client fetch new segments, as needed, to keep the playback buffer full. At no point does the entire file ever reside in memory.
Indeed, Safari (the only major browser to implement HLS) does not offer the ability to save streamed (audio or video) files. The same is true of all the MPEG-DASH (the Industry-Standard successor to HLS) clients that I know of, even though MPEG-DASH (unlike HLS) doesn’t require segmenting the file (instead, streaming is achieved by Partial HTTP GETs).
