Tag / Metadatas - Yate / Discogs / Roon frustration - What’s your method?

Hi all
I am desperately trying to properly edit the metadata of my digital music library.
In particular, I would like to make sure that my files contain all the credits information available.
But when I import metadata from discogs via yate, yate filters out a lot of information, treated as “unhandled” for Roon.
Then roon decides not to display some information from the file.
Also, I would like to add accurate information for roles, for example I would like to keep CONDUCTOR (string and choir) as opposed to just “conductor”.
I am using FLAC as a file format.

Am I the only one out there who would love an accurate and complete credit list to show up on my files?
What’s your method?

Despite the music industry promoting standards for metadata not everyone ahderes to them. To further complicate the matter many users employ custom tagging that is not defined in the guideline.

Not sure whether the following will help you or not.

Hi @Mathieu_Archambault,

Welcome to our Roon Community! This is the place to meet other Roon customers and get answers to all your Roon questions, from other users and Roon Staff alike.

You can find a wealth of information on how Roon handles your local library in our Knowledge Base.

Here’s a link to some of those resources, each of the folders contain additional articles that you might find useful.

Thank you BCBC. Looks really helpful and complete. I will have to take more time to read and process everything ! It makes me think that I’m not sure that the future is in standardisation seeing how the market is already very diverse. But again, thank you for your answer.

Hi Mathieu,

One way is to use the “Personnel” tag that allows you to specify the function of the performer so you can both enter the same person as “Conductor” if they are the overall conductor and /or in the personnel field for a specific field. Standard descriptions recognised by Roon would be “Chorus Master” or “Choir Director” for a choral conductor or “Orchestra Leader” for a chamber ensemble. This would take the form of “[artist name] - Chorus Master” in a Personnel field. If you have choral or opera recordings recognised by Roon, you will often see those credits appear (as well as “Assistant Conductor” in some rare cases). Sometimes they are labelled as “Conductor” which as tou point out is confusing.

Note that you can also specify instrumental or vocal roles in the Personnel tag. Do read the Roon guide to find the correct termination for various roles (especially the Vocal roles) which tends to follow the AMG (All Music Guide) terminology. It is now less confusing than the artist and composer names where Roon has changed its policy from using the AMG custom and now gone to an “original” language format or so-called “canonic” spelling for composers. It will still recognise and match AMG artist names for the time being at least. (Sorry for bringing this up as I have in other posts but it is really a pet peeve -the only in one in 7 years of using Roon: usually upgrades give us more choice and functionality rather than taking some away). Maybe they will allow us to choose whether we want artist names set to our language of choice or “original” format in a future updates, but as this is really only an issue for classical music, it may not be on a priority list.

Very, very helpful Happycy. Thank you.
You answer a big part of my problem: I guess I was waiting for making my own description but it looks that I was wrong to waiting for :slight_smile:
Beyond Roon case, I still don’t understand, why technically the audio metadatas/tags do not standardise the types of tags and let the content free for users or editors. Ex. “Personnel” as a type and “Strings Conductor” as a free value. And here, I don’t mention the difficulties based on audio formats (Flac vs mp3…).
It looks a little archaic to me when you see what you can do with tag base management for pictures.
I guess I have not the big picture of course but contents on this topic are very rare on internet and I struggle to improve my knowledge.

Concerning the terminology you mention. Can you explain a little more I’m not sure to understand this AMG vs canonic stuff.

BTW and still concerning metadatas in Roon.
If I fill my audio files with datas and specify Roon that I want to import my datas and not Roon ones, I see that Roon metadatas are still visible.
Do you know where could it coming from ?

Thanks again Happycy for your sharing.

Where an artist has multiple roles, roon will not understand the convention of putting the multiple roles in brackets after the artist. That is why Yate strips them out.

What I do in this extremely common case is that I make two roles for the artist:

Herbert von Karajan - Conductor
Herbert von Karajan - Choir Master

You can do the same for other multi-instrumentalists. For example, where a pianist has conducted the orchestra in a piano concerto from the keyboard:

Daniel Barenboim - Conductor
Daniel Barenboim - Piano

Also I find this to be extremely common with historical music ensembles:

Jordi Saval - Conductor
Jordi Saval - Viola da Gamba

Hi Mathieu,
Roon picks up data from various databases and assigns credits as provided by those databases (if you look at the credits or « About » section in settings you will see a list of licensors and database providers which change over time but include for example amongst others MusicBrainz). If you want Roon to ignore such data and focus on that from your tags you have 2 main solutions: you can go into « Settings » into « Library » and into Import Settings and there you can specify if Roon should prefer its data or yours or merge the 2 by credit type but beware that this then becomes a rule applied to all your albums. Alternatively if you want to remove credits on individual albums, you select the album and remove or add credits to that album alone (or multiple albums if you select more than one). Be aware that credits thee kept at both an album level (click on the three dots near the album title once in the album and look for the credits section) and at a track level (select the tracks you want to edit in the album page -or all of them if that is the case-) and you can also add or remove credits there (sometimes you have to edit credits at both levels). As a general rule if you are manually editing credits within Roon, best to do it a track level, even if you select all of them in one go.

Roon will not modify your tags but will rather store the information in its database on your system, so make sure to have automatic database backups set up so that they are not lost!

As regards the issue I brought up on naming convention, from inception until a few months ago, Roon followed the English naming conventions for artists as applied for example by All Music Guide or MusicBrainz or Discogs too. This does not make much difference for most modern music artists or living artists as they set what stage names are used for them but it matters for ensembles or historical artists where naming conventions were not so well established or for translations of non-latin names, particularly Cyrillic names.

Roon now adopts what it calls the original language name which is a minefield in the classical world where other considerations have stepped in over the last decades and which is a big problem for ensembles. If you are Polish it is « Fryderyk Chopin » that is the original name but if you are French or English it is « Frédéric Chopin ». If you are Catalan it is « Pau Casals »; if you are not or look for a recording in a shop or online it is « Pablo Casals ».

Orchestras known as the Warsaw Philharmonic Orchestra or the Turku Philharmonic Orchestra have names in Polish or Finnish that non native speakers will not recognise and which they do not use when touring outside their home countries.

Conductor Vladimir Jurowski now appears as Vladimir Mikhailovich Jurowski whilst in London when performing as head of the LPO or when represented by his agent; as his father Mikhail Jurowski is also a conductor adding his middle name is confusing rather than clarifying.

The translation of Russian is also a function of where artists may have lived or your choice of dominant languag: the canonical for Shostakovich in French is Chostakovitch and for Tchaikovsky is Tschaikowsky is German for obvious linguistic reasons. That diacritical marks are now always shown (accents to you and me) is much less of an issue (those that matters to the phonetic pronunciation of a name were usually shown previously as opposed to those that are about emphasising a syllable in the name).

Now I have no issue with allowing people to select seeing names in original language but why reduce options when those are in any case still functioning in the background? By having menus by language Roon had been going the way of being more customisable for non-English users, whilst this change does not help for consistency or understanding and goes in the contrary direction. If I am a French speaker only (I am bilingual French and English and a good German speaker too), I would rather an option to see artist names in their French incarnation.

It is of course a complicated situation in the classical world as while some ensemble names may be translated (eg general the Vienna Philharmonic), others are not (the Dresden Staatskapelle or Leipzig Gewandhaus).

In any case if you have your own library of music beyond any streaming service, if you want your composer or artists or performer tags to be recognised, you should follow the AMG naming conventions even if they differ from what Roon may show as Roon will recognise them. Otherwise unless you know what Roon has decided is the « canonical » name for which there is no master list, the name may not be recognised and it will not be linked to that artists in a search.

Apologies for the long diversion and any typos (too late to check). In general Roon listen to their community (I must say that I did not see any request for the change they made nor was it announced or explained until a month later) but classical tends to be overlooked or often misunderstood or not to have been thought about when changes are made or protocols adopted, hence all the problems with the way metadata tags were defined…lol

This has really turned roon into a very sorry state for Classical. It looks like the reasoning was some inconsistencies like the English form for Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra but the German form for Weiner Philharmoniker. But the baby has been tossed out with the water. So now:

Czech Philharmonic Orchestra - Česká filharmonie
Finnish Philharmonic Orchestra - Soumen filharmoninen kuoro
Youth Symphony Orchestra of Iceland - Sinfoniuhljomsveit Æskunnar

Roon has now created a situation in which Classical navigation is essentially impossible for all native speakers (Icelanders do not know Czech or Finnish any better than I know any of them). There is a reason why Greek was the language of the Roman empire and English the language of the British and now American empires. This really should be changed back and a few of the naming inconsistencies addressed if it really was such a problem.

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