First, I hope this topic hasn’t been discussed elsewhere. I looked and did not find any postings about the future of streaming.
I suspect all Roon folks are heavy users of streaming services. I myself (don’t judge) pay for Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify and YT Music. I’m all in on streaming. I no longer have LPs, and I’ve been actively thinning my CD collection.
So when someone whose opinion I respect, sounds a mild alarm about the future of streaming, I pay attention. In this case, it’s John Darko in his “Best of 2023” summary. Here’s the section to which I refer: https://youtu.be/_JfmG62rfJ4?si=3LrCPrqgfpEcDezM&t=585
John refers to some financial issues with Spotify which are manifested in staff reductions. Also, possible changes in direction for Tidal. John then moves to a discussion of the financial model for streaming and suggests that it all my be too inexpensive to sustain. The video section is worth five minutes of your time IMHO.
So I’d be curious to hear if other “Rooners” have concerns about the future of streaming. I’m convinced that streaming in general is a solid technology that will be with us for a long time. But I’m not sure if “boutique-y” services like Tidal, Qobuz or Deezer will last the duration. Ultimately, the streaming world may belong to Apple and Amazon. That’s not an outcome I’d like to see, BTW.
I agree with John on it’s far to cheap considering what you get. Compared to video streaming which is fragmented over so many different services and doesn’t provide a lot of their archive it’s cheap as chips and this is part of the issue. It’s a race to the bottom not the top.
I only use streaming for discovery now and don’t keep any albums from them in my Library. I buy what I like. Not sure about the limited selections per service though. I would like to see digital and physical pricing for ownership more competitive than it is. Although CDs are a bargain at the moment on the whole.
Nope. Many got Roon just for their local library. I did.
There have been threads on this topic before. You might use the forum search and see what others have already said.
What Darko said was nothing new (see above paragraph). The question of whether streaming will survive or what it will look like are all up in the air. I have long cautioned fellow users to not do a repeat of the ditching of their albums / cds / etc.
Will streaming be around in some form. Probably. Would I want to use it as my sole or even primary audio source? Probably never. It has, to me, some inherent problems that will never go away.
I will never abandon my 200+ CD collection which I have collected over the span of 2 decades. I have ripped them all to uncompressed FLAC. And occasionally I will play a few using my lovely Cambridge CXCv2.
That said, I do stream most of the time. I currently have subscriptions to Qobuz, Deezer and YouTube Music since I have YouTube Premium.
Compared to the full prices that I’ve paid for my silver discs in the past streaming is very cheap.
My dad got rid of his very extensive Vinyl and CD collection and is happy listening to Internet radio using my old WiiM Mini.
My sister and her family only use Spotify.
I am the only one in my circle of family and friends who still has his collection of CD’s and a dedicated CD transport. I could just as well drop a disc in my Sony BluRay player.
I dare say streaming is here to stay but what its future might be… I don’t have a crystal ball.
That is the way I would, like to go, too - but I listen to a lot of music and discover albums every day and it simply would not be possible for me to buy everything I like. But: I kept all of the CDs I bought in more than 40 years and buy albums on vinyl if I really love them and listen to them repeatedly.
But, to be honest, if (in my case) Qobuz ceased to exist tomorrow, I would have to physically purchase a lot of the albums I have in my library again.
And yes, streaming is far too cheap for what you get. And doesn’t honour the artists sufficiently either.
3 Likes
Jaxilla
("There is no bad genre of music, there is only poor execution.")
6
No judgement from here, until recently I carried five music services. I’ve pared that down to two plus the Roon subscription to help manage my effort to expand my owned library which I (magically?) now have disposable income to grow.
I still use music services in the car and office for the sake of convenience and discovery but the current streaming model doesn’t seem sustainable to me so I’m…hedging.
Feel that. Do you get the “look” when people see the shelves full of anachronisms too?
Not just my CD’s. But also my extensive collection of DVD’s and BluRay’s. Let alone my racks full of PC games. If someone would call me a “hoarder” I would be proud of that nickname
5 Likes
mjw
(You want nice, supportive? Call a damn helpline.)
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I use Qobuz solely for music discovery nowadays, and have a CD and digital download library of around 1,400 releases, plus vinyl.
This is a relatively recent change, and deleting Qobuz from my library has meant I more connected to the music. I’m buying more music now, and a good proportion is from relatively unknown artists and independent labels.
Some years ago I read that the average household (UK) owned 30 CDs. It would seem that low cost streaming is aimed at this segment and not music enthusiasts. I doubt that the average streamer would stand much higher monthly costs. And for this reason, the high-res alternatives are unlikely to be significantly more.
If it were more, I’d probably reconsider, as I rather buy more direftly from the artists.
An alternate model to that suggested by Darko could be similar to e-books, which are comparable in price to physical media, is the option to sample music, and then buy if you like. Qobuz, with its store, could adapt, to this change, and that’s what Bandcamp already offers.
Physical media is so last century. I think in this century records, CDs and tapes will eventually become novelty items.
As long as there are people that care about making new musical discoveries and wish to try to recreate what the recording engineer intended, hi-res streaming wont be going anywhere, it’ll only become more ubiquitous.
I neglected to mention in my original query that I still own about 2,500 CDs which I have just not played for years. I love the convenience of streaming and the scope of the music online. Plus…playlists. But something about this discussion motivated me to run out to a local audio shop (that is sadly going out of business–owner is retiring). I picked up an inexpensive CD player/transport and I’m using a coax connection from the CD player into the DAC on my NAD C3050 amp/dac. I’m playing a CD right now. And it sounds pretty good. Here’s my setup:
No worries at all. Netflix and the likes are also way cheaper than they should be (for what you get), but I can’t imagine them going away any time soon.
Darko is just another “idiot YouTuber” that has financial interests written all over his face imho. Can’t really take any of his videos serious.
Let’s assume I started collecting these files digitally 40 years ago, which is true. That’s $125 a month on music, on average, for 40 years.
Until streaming approaches this price, it is a bargain, and I don’t see why anybody other than us old fogies should bother.
That said, as a fogy, I am glad that nobody can make these tracks “unavailable,” and that a good number of these tracks are not on any streaming service.
I can’t think of any subject other than “how to say anything for money without blushing” on which Darko’s opinion would be worth the time it takes to turn him off, it shouldn’t come as any surprise that major streaming services are money-losing investor-funded enterprises along the lines of Uber and similar scams. They may keep going for years, as long as someone is willing to pump money into them.
Setting aside the data business side of the company (Spotify)…
If Spotify ended the free plan, asking the 350 million ad-supported users to pay each month, would it provide enough revenue to dramatically improve the company’s direction?
For example, a $3/month plan, still ad supported, but no one listens without paying something.
Are the majority of those 350 million non-paying customers loyal enough to Spotify to begin paying?
Or, is the streaming paradigm of Amazon, Apple, etc. where the service is just one of many always growing sectors, the primary future?
Finally, is it safe to assume Spotify being acquired is very unlikely?
I have watched Darko’s video about this. Whilst in agreement that “Something” needs to be done, his idea of a Netflix style curated Streaming platform is awful in my opinion. You only need to look at Netflix to see how choice (which less face it could be enormous) has been replaced by series and films that Netflix wants you to see. You can imagine how this would play out in Music- basically the big record companies and artists would get all the space and choice and diversity would be lost.
The concept of “free” streaming needs to end and everyone should have to pay something at least.
Offline content should always come at a premium
3.Tiers should continue to be based on file resolution and if Spotify could get their act together over a high res tier, I know a lot of us would jump back to them (if Connect could find a way to deliver the content at Hi Res) even at a premium cost. Cant see Tidal and Qubuz surviving that unless Spotify restricts choice which it sort of is doing by now not paying artists with low stream numbers
Is there a place for downloaded music? Bandcamp is great for that and you do get a real connection with the artist although Qubuz Sublime is off-putting because of the initial cost and the cost of hi res streams.
The biggest issue is still artist revenue and depressingly feels like it will only get worse. It feels like the best days of streaming are already behind us and choice will only get worse.
To be quite honest I think we are extraordinarily lucky with music streaming and the way it has evolved to date. And totally agree with Darko in that we are spoilt (but please NEVER repeat that again). If you look at how much an album cost back in the day and compare that to the monthly cost of streaming… SPOILT.
I can absolutely see streaming services reverting to a Netflix style model and only allowing a limited amount of albums to be readily available… but there WILL be uproar - they need to find a happy medium as to what works, they can’t charge too much otherwise people will leave and they can’t charge too little otherwise the (smaller) artists get stung.
